How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby edbarx » 2014-09-11 11:48

Searched for CLI program calls within gparted's source code. Here is what I was looking for: :)
Code: Select all
bool ext2::move( const Partition & partition_new,
                 const Partition & partition_old,
                 OperationDetail & operationdetail )
{
   Sector distance;
   Glib::ustring offset;
   distance = partition_old.sector_start - partition_new.sector_start;
   offset = Utils::num_to_str( llabs(distance) * partition_new.sector_size );
   if ( distance < 0 )
      return ! execute_command( "e2image -ra -p -o " + offset + " " + partition_new.get_path(),
                                operationdetail, true, true );
   else
      return ! execute_command( "e2image -ra -p -O " + offset + " " + partition_new.get_path(),
                                operationdetail, true, true );

}


That is why I love GNU/Linux, with closed source software one cannot do that. :mrgreen:
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby adenukolnis » 2014-09-11 11:57

goulo wrote:Yeah, giving up iceweasel would be a heavy price to pay to get rid of dbus! I too am curious if there is a solution to that. Thamks for reporting your explorations.


You will not have much of a system at all without the libdbus package. I install it since so many packages have it listed as a depends. As far as I can tell it is just the backend of dbus so I wouldnt think it provides any active service. The dbus and dbus-x11 packages are the frontend daemons and tools as far as I know.

Instead of the complete lxde desktop, what I would probably do is run openbox and lxpanel which will give me the same look and feel although it will not have the lxde session system running.

You might also check out the razorqt desktop for a familiar enviorment.

Of course there is always icewm for a user environment too.
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-11 21:36

I realized I needed to update also my Gentoo local mirror, which, in air-gapped (poor user's, not professional air-gapped) is quite some work. Still doing it.

And then comes the updating the master, then cloning onto the only-internet same MBO Gentoo box, and then goes very scrutineous preparations, because I'm not an expert, that exposing of my provider's brazen censorship is something utmost that I have ever been able to do...

Scrutineous preparations for controlled (packet capture) subscribing and sending to debian-devel mail-list. There, I'm certain, are many developers who want us to fight for these options and freedom!

But I see you have more ideas. And, since the Gentoo update is now in works, I have to first let you know that I very much appreciate your advice and your efforts, adenukolnis and edbarx, but they call for more time than just a few minutes, for replying.

On a sidenote, I will also be looking into what slipped my attention somehow, and what exbarx gave:
http://www.brain-dump.org/blog/entry/40 ... _in_Debian

But, what fits into a few minutes writing is this:
I plan trying and installing, since I have openbox and X11, those packages that I have, the ./configure ; make ;make install (or whatever the README and INSTALL) in those packages (haven't untarred them yet), from source, keep exact track which file they install, if they manage to install, and see if that dependency on dbus is real or if it is impositional for no reason.

More time, as I said, I need, to look into and reply to other ideas. Which I will examine before deciding on the above (which does look the simplest to try, was a LinuxFromScrach-er myself), or some of your ideas.

And I have to go, for now.

Miroslav Rovis
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-12 18:03

adenukolnis wrote:
goulo wrote:Yeah, giving up iceweasel would be a heavy price to pay to get rid of dbus! I too am curious if there is a solution to that. Thamks for reporting your explorations.


You will not have much of a system at all without the libdbus package. I install it since so many packages have it listed as a depends. As far as I can tell it is just the backend of dbus so I wouldnt think it provides any active service. The dbus and dbus-x11 packages are the frontend daemons and tools as far as I know.


But I pinned the entire dbus family whatsoever with *dbus* (asterisks on both sides).
I checked, and indeed in my crippled master Debian that I am currently experimenting with, I have no dbus family member, to call'em that, just affectionately... Yeah, ermh, very affectionately...

I don't need dbus to control my system and encryption on it:

( same topic, the post with talk of Daniel Robbins )
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=116770&start=45#p552566

I really have serious issues having been offered to use a GUI, which fortunately is not the case in Debian, to simply type in my passphrase when I want to encrypt or decrypt something, as I wrote about in (another of my Offtopic's posts):

gpg-agent now forced upon users of GnuPG
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=114427

which I made further study of in:

Air-Gapped Gentoo Install, Tentative
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-9 ... ml#7551458

Any encrypting on my computer, if it isn't by my design, by my decision, or in some other way in my complete control, in not welcome. I don't have any of such in Gentoo. I might previously have had, but for that reason, in Gentoo, I have spent already months of my dedicated studying/attempting/researching for true privacy and freedom...

Instead of the complete lxde desktop, what I would probably do is run openbox and lxpanel which will give me the same look and feel although it will not have the lxde session system running.

You might also check out the razorqt desktop for a familiar enviorment.

razorqt is probaly Qt based. I would never post what I prepared if I went to reread this:

GTK fesses up – this ain’t for you; Qt takes over the world
https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/01 ... the-world/

but IIRC, QT is big business. No good things for GNU any from big business, be it Google, Red Hat or any... I could weep, thinking where GNU/Linux is allowing Itself to be dragged and humiliated, and gutted out... Theory only, this. Can't study razorqt.

Of course there is always icewm for a user environment too.

So lxde-panel or icewm. But the choice is after the systemd/dbus issue and the rest that I plan (cry for help at debian-devel) is done.

Unless I break. Because this is getting hard. Privacy looks very hard to attain in Debian. Because, no!, someone else doing the encrypting on my computer is not my privacy but his.

The multiseats! The mutliseated computers for all users of GNU/Linux in the world. That is poetteringware!

Sorry for the guy, Lennart Pöttering, but he's worse than Billy the Moral Gangster Gates. The latter was at least openly greedy (what was that letter of him crying for his dear moneys when the piracy Windoze went wild?), but this one is talking from inside GNU/Linux and killing it, and dragging his hordes behind, of mosly ignorant and uninformed, but also profiteers and liers. He is worse than Billy!

Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-12 18:10

edbarx wrote:Searched for CLI program calls within gparted's source code. Here is what I was looking for: :)
Code: Select all
bool ext2::move( const Partition & partition_new,
                 const Partition & partition_old,
                 OperationDetail & operationdetail )
{
   Sector distance;
   Glib::ustring offset;
   distance = partition_old.sector_start - partition_new.sector_start;
   offset = Utils::num_to_str( llabs(distance) * partition_new.sector_size );
   if ( distance < 0 )
      return ! execute_command( "e2image -ra -p -o " + offset + " " + partition_new.get_path(),
                                operationdetail, true, true );
   else
      return ! execute_command( "e2image -ra -p -O " + offset + " " + partition_new.get_path(),
                                operationdetail, true, true );

}


That is why I love GNU/Linux, with closed source software one cannot do that. :mrgreen:

Complete post above. No, I don't talk C (if that is C), and I am not as advanced as to understand how this could help us in our quest for freedom from poetteringware...
Miro
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-12 18:16

edbarx wrote:
timbgo wrote:Command Line Interface. But I don't get it how it applies here?

If a fraction of those functions can be delegated to CLI programs, it should be possible to use those programs as backends. This is done in many situations, where a graphical frontend like synaptic, uses CLI backends.

Added Later:
Since in C/C++ main() is a function, I am suspecting, using a CLI backend is a matter of importing that function, essentially, making the backend program behave like a library. What I know for sure is that the OS calls main() to run a program.

Unabridged post above. edbarx, I'm more of a regular user in these terms. If you manage to, but with very probable prospects, put that to use so we can liberate our boxes, great.
But I don't even see, for lack of my understanding of these codes and aspects, clearly here, and have spent too much time already. Fatigue entering.
No, I think we desperately need help from debian-devel.
I work too slowly. Why can't anyone just send that notice to those developers?
(see previous posts if someone is reading this in parachuted fashion; search for, say Wookey, and search for mirabilos)
Miro
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-12 18:21

While I have updated my private Gentoo mirror and my Gentoo boxes, I haven't prepared the issue for mailing to the developers yet (just pleaded if someone could help in that regard again, in the previous post), and in fact most of my work since I left here yesterday was with the issue of living systemd-free in Debian.

I decided I knew too little to be able to rid myself of the dbus dependency the way that edbarx suggested
( http://www.brain-dump.org/blog/entry/40 ... _in_Debian )

and went for the old general compilation way (configure, make, make install of the upstream sources).

I have discovered only that ffmpeg can be installed without any dbus/systemd/pulseaudio/oetteringware-generally, and that tells something doesn't it?

But tried quite a few times unsuccessfully to install mplayer.

With mplayer goes also mencoder. And I use my old command line to capture DVB from an old TV card on whichever of the Debian boxes that I install the TV-card in (physically in the PCI-slot). If I were able to get that mencoder to do the work, that would be a major breakthrough.

Yes, getting mencoder to work on my no-dbus, no-systemd, no-policykit, no-pulseaudio, no-any-poetteringware, would be a major breakthrough, because it would without much doubt prove that potteringware is really just an overhead on top of real programs, that can perfectly, although not at all easily at the current state of affairs, be done away with.

I plan to explain in detail what I've done since I left yesterday.
EDIT 2014-10-22: I remembered this promise of mine often later on, but it kept looming as too much work, and not pressing work, so I left it behind. Anyway, that was all compiling the LinuxFromScratch way, if you know LFS, or simply the configure; make; make install way which you (I'm always having newbies in mind as well, not the competent only who conversed with me here)...
And is not appropriate for methods in Debian distro...
What I did proved my point, and many others' points all over the internet: that those dependencies are unnecessarily introduced and can be done without.
I am currently exploring, will be testing it these hours:
MirDebian “WTF” Repository
http://users.unixforge.de/~tglaser/debs/debidx.htm
which is soon to be on:
https://people.debian.org/~tg/
Pls. disregard other promises possibly in further posts down from here that I have to render void with this notice. Thanks!
Last edited by timbgo on 2014-10-22 00:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-12 20:47

I untar'd the mplayer sources (it's upstream sources, so I don't think it mattered that I got them from m y local Gentoo mirror). and, as per the instructions in the README, I first tried:

Code: Select all
debian/daily-build.sh -b


And I got this result:

Code: Select all
root@mybox:/usr/local/src/mplayer-1.2_pre20130729# debian/daily-build.sh -b
dpkg-buildpackage: source package mplayer                       
dpkg-buildpackage: source version 2:1.0~svn
dpkg-buildpackage: source distribution UNRELEASED
dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by root <root@mybox>
dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture amd64
 dpkg-source -i -I.svn --before-build mplayer-1.2_pre20130729
dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Dm-Upload-Allowed' in input data in general section of control info file
dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: ladspa-sdk libenca-dev libaa1-dev libasound2-dev libaudio-dev libcaca-dev libcdparanoia-dev | libcdparanoia0-dev libbluray-dev libdirectfb-dev libdts-dev libesd0-dev libfaad-dev libfribidi-dev libgif-dev libgtk2.0-dev libjack-dev libjpeg-dev liblircclient-dev liblivemedia-dev liblzo2-dev libmp3lame-dev libmpcdec-dev libopenal-dev libpulse-dev libschroedinger-dev libsdl1.2-dev | libsdl1.1-dev libsmbclient-dev libspeex-dev libsvga1-dev libswscale-dev libtheora-dev (>= 1.0~beta1) libvorbis-dev libvorbisidec-dev libx264-dev (>= 2:0.115~) libxinerama-dev libxv-dev libxvidcore-dev libxvmc-dev libxxf86dga-dev libvdpau-dev vstream-client-dev yasm
dpkg-buildpackage: warning: build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting
dpkg-buildpackage: warning: (Use -d flag to override.)
root@mybox:/usr/local/src/mplayer-1.2_pre20130729#


Ah, it's missing the dev packages. I figure that out only now, hours after the event. I said I was slow.

Can't try anything there now. I'm working on reporting my other attempts as well.

Next, I tried the following.
Code: Select all
./configure --prefix=/usr


It complained it needed yasm.
Code: Select all
apt-get install yasm

Installed.

I used redirection as below, to be able to report the state of affairs.
Code: Select all
./configure --prefix=/usr 2>&1 | tee /somewhere/mplayer_`date +%y%m%d_%H%M`_configure.txt
make 2>&1 | tee /somewhere/mplayer_`date +%y%m%d_%H%M`_make.txt

I won't be repeating those redirection to not clutter this report.

Then I ran:
Code: Select all
make

But mplayer could not compile, and the make ran very short.
Code: Select all
help/help_create.sh help/help_mp-en.h UTF-8
cc -MMD -MP -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -Ilibdvdread4  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT  -I/usr/include/freetype2 -c -o command.o command.c
In file included from libmpdemux/stheader.h:23:0,
                 from command.c:32:
libmpdemux/aviheader.h:25:30: fatal error: libavutil/common.h: No such file or directory
 #include "libavutil/common.h"
                              ^
compilation terminated.
Makefile:758: recipe for target 'command.o' failed
make: *** [command.o] Error 1


Another attmpet at mplayer. And my attempts here go from the start. Removing the antire untarred directory and going all over.

So this is the output of
configure --prefix=/usr:
Code: Select all
Checking for cc version ... 4.8
Checking for working compiler ... yes
Detected operating system: Linux
Detected host architecture: x86_64
Checking for cross compilation ... no
Checking for host cc ... cc
Checking for CPU vendor ... AuthenticAMD (15:43:1)
Checking for CPU type ...  AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+
Checking for kernel support of mmx ... yes
Checking for kernel support of mmxext ... yes
Checking for kernel support of 3dnow ... yes
Checking for kernel support of 3dnowext ... yes
Checking for kernel support of sse ... yes
Checking for kernel support of sse2 ... yes
Checking for kernel support of sse3 ... yes
Checking for kernel support of cmov ... yes
Checking for mtrr support ... yes
Checking for GCC & CPU optimization abilities ... native
Checking for byte order ... little-endian
Checking for extern symbol prefix ... 
Checking for assembler support of -pipe option ... yes
Checking for relocatable binary ... yes (fast PIC)
Checking for PIC ... yes
Checking for .align is a power of two ... no
Checking for ebx availability ... yes
Checking for yasm ... yasm
Checking for bswap ... yes
Checking for xmm clobbers ... yes
Checking for langinfo ... yes
Checking for language ... messages: en - man pages: en - documentation: en
Checking for enable sighandler ... yes
Checking for runtime cpudetection ... no
Checking for restrict keyword ... restrict
Checking for __builtin_expect ... yes
Checking for kstat ... no
Checking for atanf ... yes
Checking for cbrt ... yes
Checking for cbrtf ... yes
Checking for cosf ... yes
Checking for expf ... yes
Checking for exp2 ... yes
Checking for exp2f ... yes
Checking for isnan ... yes
Checking for isinf ... yes
Checking for llrint ... yes
Checking for llrintf ... yes
Checking for log2 ... yes
Checking for log2f ... yes
Checking for log10f ... yes
Checking for lrint ... yes
Checking for lrintf ... yes
Checking for rint ... yes
Checking for round ... yes
Checking for roundf ... yes
Checking for sinf ... yes
Checking for trunc ... yes
Checking for truncf ... yes
Checking for atan2f ... yes
Checking for ldexpf ... yes
Checking for powf ... yes
Checking for mkstemp ... yes
Checking for nanosleep ... yes
Checking for socklib ... yes
Checking for netdb.h, struct addrinfo ... yes
Checking for netdb.h, getaddrinfo() ... yes
Checking for sockaddr_storage ... yes
Checking for struct ipv6_mreq ... yes
Checking for struct sockaddr_in6 ... yes
Checking for struct sockaddr sa_len ... no
Checking for arpa/inet.h ... yes
Checking for inet_pton() ... yes
Checking for inet_aton() ... no
Checking for socklen_t ... yes
Checking for closesocket() ... no
Checking for networking ... yes
Checking for inet6 ... yes
Checking for gethostbyname2 ... yes
Checking for SCTP ... no
Checking for sys/poll.h ... yes
Checking for inttypes.h (required) ... yes
Checking for int_fastXY_t in inttypes.h ... yes
Checking for malloc.h ... yes
Checking for aligned malloc ... no
Checking for memalign() ... yes
Checking for posix_memalign() ... yes
Checking for alloca.h ... yes
Checking for fastmemcpy ... yes
Checking for hard-coded tables ... no
Checking for mman.h ... yes
Checking for mprotect ... yes
Checking for dynamic loader ... yes
Checking for dynamic a/v plugins support ... no
Checking for pthread ... yes (using -lpthread)
Checking for direct.h ... no
Checking for windows.h ... no
Checking for io.h ... no
Checking for rpath ... no
Checking for iconv ... yes
Checking for soundcard.h ... yes (sys/soundcard.h)
Checking for termcap ... yes (using -lncurses)
Checking for termios ... yes (using termios.h)
Checking for shm ... yes
Checking for strsep() ... yes
Checking for vsscanf() ... yes
Checking for POSIX select() ... yes
Checking for audio select() ... yes
Checking for gettimeofday() ... yes
Checking for glob() ... yes
Checking for setenv() ... yes
Checking for setmode() ... no
Checking for sys/sysinfo.h ... yes
Checking for Apple IR ... yes
Checking for pkg-config ... yes
Checking for Samba support (libsmbclient) ... no
Checking for /dev/mga_vid ... no
Checking for tdfxfb ... no
Checking for s3fb ... no
Checking for wii ... no
Checking for tdfxvid ... no
Checking for xvr100 ... no
Checking for tga ... yes
Checking for md5sum support ... yes
Checking for yuv4mpeg support ... yes
Checking for bl ... no
Checking for DirectFB ... no
Checking for X11 headers presence ... yes
Checking for X11 ... yes
Checking for Xss screensaver extensions ... no
Checking for DPMS ... yes (using Xdpms 4)
Checking for Xv ... no
Checking for XvMC ... no
Checking for Video Decode Acceleration (VDA) ... no
Checking for VDPAU ... no
Checking for Xinerama ... no
Checking for Xxf86vm ... yes
Checking for XF86keysym ... yes
Checking for DGA ... no
Checking for xmga ... no
Checking for 3dfx ... no
Checking for VIDIX ... yes
Checking for VIDIX PCI device name database ... yes
Checking for VIDIX dhahelper support ... no
Checking for VIDIX svgalib_helper support ... no
Checking for GGI ... no
Checking for GGI extension: libggiwmh ... no
Checking for AA ... no
Checking for CACA ... no
Checking for SVGAlib ... no
Checking for FBDev ... yes
Checking for DVB ... yes
Checking for PNG support ... yes
Checking for MNG support ... no
Checking for JPEG support ... no
Checking for OpenJPEG (JPEG 2000) support ... no
Checking for PNM support ... yes
Checking for GIF support ... no
Checking for VESA support ... no
Checking for SDL ... no
Checking for SDL image ... no
Checking for OpenGL ... yes (backends: x11 egl_x11)
Checking for MatrixView ... yes
Checking for DXR2 ... no
Checking for DXR3/H+ ... no
Checking for IVTV TV-Out (pre linux-2.6.24) ... no
Checking for V4L2 MPEG Decoder ... yes
Checking for OSS Audio ... yes
Checking for aRts ... no
Checking for EsounD ... no
Checking for NAS ... no
Checking for pulse ... no
Checking for JACK ... no
Checking for OpenAL ... no
Checking for ALSA audio ... no
Checking for Sun audio ... no
Checking for VCD support ... yes
Checking for Blu-ray support ... no
Checking for dvdread ... yes (internal)
Checking for internal libdvdcss ... yes
Checking for libcdio ... no
Checking for cdparanoia ... no
Checking for bitmap font support ... yes
Checking for freetype >= 2.0.9 ... yes
Checking for fontconfig ... yes
Checking for fribidi with charsets ... no
Checking for SSA/ASS support ... yes
Checking for ENCA ... no
Checking for zlib ... yes
Checking for bzlib ... no
Checking for RTC ... yes
Checking for liblzo2 support ... no
Checking for mad support ... no
Checking for Twolame ... no
Checking for Toolame ... no
Checking for OggVorbis support ... no
Checking for libspeex (version >= 1.1 required) ... no
Checking for libgsm ... no
Checking for OggTheora support ... no
Checking for mpg123 support ... no
Checking for liba52 support ... no
Checking for libmpeg2 support ... yes (internal)
Checking for libdca support ... no
Checking for libmpcdec (musepack, version >= 1.2.1 required) ... no
Checking for FAAC support ... no (in FFmpeg: no)
Checking for FAAD2 support ... no
Checking for libilbc support ... no
Checking for libopus decoding support ... no
Checking for LADSPA plugin support ... no
Checking for libbs2b audio filter support ... no
Checking for Win32 codecs ... no
Checking for XAnim codecs ... yes (dynamic loader support needed)
Checking for RealPlayer codecs ... yes (dynamic loader support needed)
Checking for QuickTime codecs ... auto
Checking for Nemesi Streaming Media libraries ... no
Checking for LIVE555 Streaming Media libraries ... no
Checking for RTMPDump Streaming Media library ... no
Checking for FFmpeg ... yes
Checking for libpostproc ... yes
Checking for libopencore_amr narrowband ... no
Checking for libopencore_amr wideband ... no
Checking for libdv-0.9.5+ ... no
Checking for CrystalHD ... no
Checking for Xvid ... no
Checking for Xvid two pass plugin ... no
Checking for x264 ... no (in FFmpeg: no)
Checking for libdirac ... no
Checking for libschroedinger ... no
Checking for libvpx ... no
Checking for libnut ... no
Checking for zr ... no
Checking for libmp3lame ... no (in FFmpeg: no)
Checking for mencoder ... yes
Checking for UnRAR executable ... yes
Checking for TV interface ... yes
Checking for DirectShow TV interface ... auto
Checking for Video 4 Linux TV interface ... no
Checking for Video 4 Linux 2 TV interface ... yes
Checking for Radio interface ... no
Checking for Capture for Radio interface ... no
Checking for Video 4 Linux 2 Radio interface ... auto
Checking for Video 4 Linux Radio interface ... auto
Checking for Video 4 Linux 2 MPEG PVR interface ... yes
Checking for ftp ... yes
Checking for vstream client ... no
Checking for OSD menu ... no
Checking for Subtitles sorting ... yes
Checking for XMMS inputplugin support ... no
Checking for GUI ... no
Checking for automatic gdb attach ... no
Checking for compiler support for noexecstack ... yes
Checking for linker support for --nxcompat --no-seh --dynamicbase ... no
Checking for linker support for --large-address-aware ... no
Checking for linker support for --version-script ... yes
Checking for joystick ... no
Checking for lirc ... no
Checking for lircc ... no
Checking for DVD support (libdvdnav) ... yes (internal)
Checking for XML catalogs ... SGML catalog
Checking for XML chunked stylesheet ... chunk.xsl
Checking for XML monolithic stylesheet ... docbook.xsl
Checking for XML DTD ... docbookx.dtd
Checking for valid XSLT processor ... xsltproc
Creating config.mak
Creating config.h

Config files successfully generated by ./configure --prefix=/usr !

  Install prefix: /usr
  Data directory: /usr/share/mplayer
  Config direct.: /usr/etc/mplayer

  Byte order: little-endian
  Optimizing for: native

  Languages:
    Messages/GUI: en
    Manual pages: en
    Documentation: en

  Enabled optional drivers:
    Input: dvdnav(internal) ftp pvr tv-v4l2 tv libdvdcss(internal) dvdread(internal) vcd dvb networking
    Codecs: ffmpeg(internal) real xanim libmpeg2(internal)
    Audio output: oss v4l2 mpegpes(dvb)
    Video output: v4l2 matrixview opengl pnm mpegpes(dvb) fbdev xvidix cvidix x11 xover yuv4mpeg md5sum tga

  Disabled optional drivers:
    Input: vstream radio tv-v4l1 tv-dshow librtmp live555 nemesi cddb cdda bluray smb
    Codecs: libvpx libschroedinger libdirac x264 xvid crystalhd libdv libopencore_amrwb libopencore_amrnb qtx win32 libopus ilbc faad2 faac musepack libdca liba52 mpg123 libtheora libgsm speex libvorbis toolame twolame libmad liblzo gif OpenJPEG
    Audio output: sun alsa openal jack pulse nas esd arts ivtv dxr2 sdl
    Video output: zr zr2 ivtv dxr3 dxr2 sdl vesa gif89a jpeg mng svga caca aa ggi winvidix 3dfx xmga dga vdpau xvmc xv directfb dfbmga bl xvr100 tdfx_vid wii s3fb tdfxfb mga

'config.h' and 'config.mak' contain your configuration options.
Note: If you alter theses files (for instance CFLAGS) MPlayer may no longer
      compile *** DO NOT REPORT BUGS if you tweak these files ***

'make' will now compile MPlayer and 'make install' will install it.
Note: On non-Linux systems you might need to use 'gmake' instead of 'make'.

Please check MTRR settings at /proc/mtrr (see DOCS/HTML/en/video.html#mtrr)

NOTE: Win32 codec DLLs are not supported on your CPU (x86_64) or your
operating system (Linux). You may encounter a few files that cannot
be played due to missing open source video/audio codec support.

Check config.log if you wonder why an autodetection failed (make sure
development headers/packages are installed).

NOTE: The --enable-* parameters unconditionally force options on, completely
skipping autodetection. This behavior is unlike what you may be used to from
autoconf-based configure scripts that can decide to override you. This greater
level of control comes at a price. You may have to provide the correct compiler
and linker flags yourself.
If you used one of these options (except --enable-menu and similar ones that
turn on internal features) and experience a compilation or linking failure,
make sure you have passed the necessary compiler/linker flags to configure.

If you suspect a bug, please read DOCS/HTML/en/bugreports.html.


The lines that strike me:

Code: Select all
Checking for ALSA audio ... no

but later:
Code: Select all
    Audio output: sun alsa openal jack pulse nas esd arts ivtv dxr2 sdl

I don't understand that.

And here's why, if anyone could explain to us. I'm still vague on it.

Code: Select all
From [b]config.log[/b] of the mplayer compilation in question:
##########################################

============ Checking for ALSA audio ============

#include <alsa/asoundlib.h>
int main(void) { return 0; }

cc -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize /tmp/mplayer-configure--6770/tmp.c  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT    -ffast-math -fpie -pie   -lncurses -lpng -lz   -lXext -lX11 -lpthread -lXxf86vm -lGL -ldl -lEGL -ldl  -o /tmp/mplayer-configure--6770/tmp -lasound -ldl -lpthread -lm
/tmp/mplayer-configure--6770/tmp.c:1:28: fatal error: alsa/asoundlib.h: No such file or directory
 #include <alsa/asoundlib.h>
                            ^
compilation terminated.


Result is: no
##########################################
[1]

The fact is: truly no such file: asoundlib.h in directory alsa or any other on my crippled, experimented-with Debian air-gapped box (just rechecked).

Just checked in my Gentoo box, /usr/include/alsa/asoundlib.h is there. But this online Debian box doesn't have it:
Code: Select all
# find /usr/ -name 'asoundlib.h'
#

returns empty.

Even without figuring this our, I thought it must be mplayer will install if I manage to install ffmpeg.

I just check ffmpeg which I managed to install. I has too few formats supported, such as not x264 and not libvorbis (it reported it would install it but I couldn't encode into it), but I managed to convert audio from an elsewhere captured TV/DVB snippet from mp2 into a wav format, so probably can be gotten to work fine.

Why is it, that dbus has to be a requirement for ffmpeg? How immoral from whoever makes that a requirement for FFmpeg on Debian.

So, ffmpeg installed.

BTW, this is the ffmpeg configure line:
Code: Select all
./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-gpl --enable-x11grab

--enable-gpl is a requirement for --enable-x11grab, which I need for my screencasting:

Code: Select all
ffmpeg -f x11grab -s xga -r 25 -i :0.0 Screen_`date +%y%m%d_%H%M`_`hostname`.mkv

That line worked on my no-poetteringware experimental Debian.

Now mplayer will, as I will demonstrate, stop short again, but not so quickly at all!

In the meantime, lest I forget to say, I also upgraded that experimental box with this week's Jigdo Testing Branch. DVD's served from my local mirror.

Just one tip for people who might be reading this and anyhow thinking of compiling upstream packages (any packages) the the old configure/make/make install way:

If you do so, you have to keep track of the files that the package you are compiling installs on your system. Else, troubles looming over you box! If you some time in the future decide you want to remove it, how will you do i? And also, if you don't remove them, how do you know if a particular file does not belong to one of those that you compiled and install the old way?

I keep track of them this way:
Code: Select all
find /<my-system-partitions> -name '*' 2>&1 | tee /somewhere/FIND_`date +%y%m%d_%H%M`_`hostname`.txt

<my-system-partitions> can be one sole, or can be all that is mounted on root if I unmount foreing filesystems, say from my SOHO.
And that line finds all the files that are at a particular time in my system partitions.

Run this separately from a command line to see what it does:

Code: Select all
date +%y%m%d_%H%M

It just puts into the name of that FIND_xxxxxxx_yourhostname.txt file the date and time when you take down the list of ALL files in your system partition(s).

The easiest way to know what a particular compiled program will install is to run that command after a successful:

Code: Select all
make

and then run:

Code: Select all
make install

and now run that find line from the command prompt again.
If you do the diff on those two before and after make install, and do some sed'ing on it, you can easily get the exact list of files that a program has just installed.

If you don't know how to use sed, you can edit the diff in some editor.

Anyway, this is the list of my ffmpeg install:

Code: Select all
/usr/share/ffmpeg
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/demuxing_decoding.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/Makefile
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/filtering_video.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/transcoding.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/metadata.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/transcode_aac.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/scaling_video.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/decoding_encoding.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/resampling_audio.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/README
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/filter_audio.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/filtering_audio.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/muxing.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/avio_reading.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/examples/remuxing.c
/usr/share/ffmpeg/libvpx-1080p.ffpreset
/usr/share/ffmpeg/libvpx-720p50_60.ffpreset
/usr/share/ffmpeg/libvpx-1080p50_60.ffpreset
/usr/share/ffmpeg/ffprobe.xsd
/usr/share/ffmpeg/libvpx-720p.ffpreset
/usr/share/ffmpeg/libvpx-360p.ffpreset
/usr/share/man/man3/libavfilter.3
/usr/share/man/man3/libavutil.3
/usr/share/man/man3/libavformat.3
/usr/share/man/man3/libswscale.3
/usr/share/man/man3/libavdevice.3
/usr/share/man/man3/libavcodec.3
/usr/share/man/man3/libswresample.3
/usr/share/man/man1/ffprobe-all.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-codecs.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-formats.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-devices.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffserver.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffprobe.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-all.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-scaler.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-bitstream-filters.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-utils.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-protocols.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-filters.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffserver-all.1
/usr/share/man/man1/ffmpeg-resampler.1
/usr/bin/ffserver
/usr/bin/ffmpeg
/usr/bin/ffprobe
/usr/lib/libswresample.a
/usr/lib/libpostproc.a
/usr/lib/libavcodec.a
/usr/lib/libswscale.a
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libavfilter.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libavutil.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libswresample.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libavcodec.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libavdevice.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libavformat.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libswscale.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libpostproc.pc
/usr/lib/libavutil.a
/usr/lib/libavformat.a
/usr/lib/libavfilter.a
/usr/lib/libavdevice.a
/usr/include/libavutil
/usr/include/libavutil/frame.h
/usr/include/libavutil/threadmessage.h
/usr/include/libavutil/xtea.h
/usr/include/libavutil/adler32.h
/usr/include/libavutil/mem.h
/usr/include/libavutil/channel_layout.h
/usr/include/libavutil/dict.h
/usr/include/libavutil/opt.h
/usr/include/libavutil/random_seed.h
/usr/include/libavutil/ffversion.h
/usr/include/libavutil/time.h
/usr/include/libavutil/file.h
/usr/include/libavutil/timecode.h
/usr/include/libavutil/murmur3.h
/usr/include/libavutil/common.h
/usr/include/libavutil/log.h
/usr/include/libavutil/base64.h
/usr/include/libavutil/eval.h
/usr/include/libavutil/replaygain.h
/usr/include/libavutil/error.h
/usr/include/libavutil/bprint.h
/usr/include/libavutil/intreadwrite.h
/usr/include/libavutil/cpu.h
/usr/include/libavutil/blowfish.h
/usr/include/libavutil/display.h
/usr/include/libavutil/intfloat_readwrite.h
/usr/include/libavutil/avassert.h
/usr/include/libavutil/audio_fifo.h
/usr/include/libavutil/audioconvert.h
/usr/include/libavutil/version.h
/usr/include/libavutil/parseutils.h
/usr/include/libavutil/buffer.h
/usr/include/libavutil/lzo.h
/usr/include/libavutil/bswap.h
/usr/include/libavutil/hash.h
/usr/include/libavutil/pixfmt.h
/usr/include/libavutil/avstring.h
/usr/include/libavutil/avconfig.h
/usr/include/libavutil/avutil.h
/usr/include/libavutil/md5.h
/usr/include/libavutil/imgutils.h
/usr/include/libavutil/fifo.h
/usr/include/libavutil/ripemd.h
/usr/include/libavutil/attributes.h
/usr/include/libavutil/crc.h
/usr/include/libavutil/samplefmt.h
/usr/include/libavutil/intfloat.h
/usr/include/libavutil/aes.h
/usr/include/libavutil/downmix_info.h
/usr/include/libavutil/mathematics.h
/usr/include/libavutil/macros.h
/usr/include/libavutil/rational.h
/usr/include/libavutil/lfg.h
/usr/include/libavutil/sha.h
/usr/include/libavutil/sha512.h
/usr/include/libavutil/old_pix_fmts.h
/usr/include/libavutil/stereo3d.h
/usr/include/libavutil/hmac.h
/usr/include/libavutil/timestamp.h
/usr/include/libavutil/pixdesc.h
/usr/include/libavcodec
/usr/include/libavcodec/avfft.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/vda.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/vdpau.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/dv_profile.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/old_codec_ids.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/version.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/dxva2.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/xvmc.h
/usr/include/libavcodec/vaapi.h
/usr/include/libswresample
/usr/include/libswresample/version.h
/usr/include/libswresample/swresample.h
/usr/include/libpostproc
/usr/include/libpostproc/postprocess.h
/usr/include/libpostproc/version.h
/usr/include/libswscale
/usr/include/libswscale/swscale.h
/usr/include/libswscale/version.h
/usr/include/libavformat
/usr/include/libavformat/avformat.h
/usr/include/libavformat/version.h
/usr/include/libavformat/avio.h
/usr/include/libavfilter
/usr/include/libavfilter/buffersink.h
/usr/include/libavfilter/buffersrc.h
/usr/include/libavfilter/avcodec.h
/usr/include/libavfilter/version.h
/usr/include/libavfilter/avfilter.h
/usr/include/libavfilter/asrc_abuffer.h
/usr/include/libavfilter/avfiltergraph.h
/usr/include/libavdevice
/usr/include/libavdevice/version.h
/usr/include/libavdevice/avdevice.h

which I got in the above described fashion.

These are the two full codecs-an-all-support outputs for the OLD (the dbus and systemd still on), and the experimental, the NEW (no-systemd-dbus-etAlia) Debian of mine at this time:

Code: Select all
$ ls -ABRgo Deb_140912-ffmpeg-h_full_???.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 300104 Sep 12 21:59 Deb_140912-ffmpeg-h_full_NEW.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 310469 Sep 12 22:02 Deb_140912-ffmpeg-h_full_OLD.txt
$


To cut this presentation shorter a little, the NEW is missing stuff, like libvorbis, amr, vp8.

But this still proves that this what I long for must be possible. And also: that it really is not blocked at the upstream, desire like mine, to live with pure programs, without the multiseated ones, in the case of FFmpeg.

We are of cause talking of the real FFmpeg, who the "obsolete" one (It was touted, in Debian, and members of Debian team have nothing to do with politics?... It was, for quite some time, touted, by some members of the Debian packaging team, those who get the wording that newbies read such as in aptitude --I was back then a newbie in Debian-- it was touted as obsolete. Yes, when I tried to install FFmpeg, I was told that it was obsolete and that I had to use aconv. So much about politics. From me, who have been Offtopic'd quite a few times for speaking my opinion).

Back to Mplayer install.

Without dbus/systemd and any of poetteringware (if you've just parachuted in here).

I'm tired. I'll try and just find the final config.log or somesuch...

No. It's the make. Which failed.

After ./configure line as (much further) above, I ran:
Code: Select all
make
[2]

and this is the output, shortened:
Code: Select all
help/help_create.sh help/help_mp-en.h UTF-8
cc -MMD -MP -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -Ilibdvdread4  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT  -I/usr/include/freetype2 -c -o command.o command.c

...[snip]...

cc -MMD -MP -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -Ilibdvdread4  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT  -I/usr/include/freetype2 -c -o stream/stream_bd.o stream/stream_bd.c
stream/stream_bd.c: In function 'get_clipinf':
stream/stream_bd.c:416:39: warning: variable 'end_offset' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
     int langmap_offset, index_offset, end_offset;
                                       ^

...[snip]...

libmpcodecs/vf_screenshot.c: In function 'draw_slice':
libmpcodecs/vf_screenshot.c:161:9: warning: passing argument 2 of 'sws_scale' from incompatible pointer type [enabled by default]
         sws_scale(vf->priv->ctx, src, stride, y, h, dst, dst_stride);
         ^
In file included from libmpcodecs/vf_screenshot.c:41:0:
/usr/include/libswscale/swscale.h:226:5: note: expected 'const uint8_t * const*' but argument is of type 'unsigned char **'
 int sws_scale(struct SwsContext *c, const uint8_t *const srcSlice[],
     ^
cc -MMD -MP -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -Ilibdvdread4  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT  -I/usr/include/freetype2 -c -o libmpdemux/demux_lavf.o libmpdemux/demux_lavf.c
libmpdemux/demux_lavf.c: In function 'demux_lavf_fill_buffer':
libmpdemux/demux_lavf.c:659:5: warning: 'destruct' is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h:1156) [-Wdeprecated-declarations]
     if(pkt.destruct == av_destruct_packet && !CONFIG_MEMALIGN_HACK){
     ^
libmpdemux/demux_lavf.c:659:5: warning: 'av_destruct_packet' is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h:3612) [-Wdeprecated-declarations]
libmpdemux/demux_lavf.c:663:9: warning: 'destruct' is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h:1156) [-Wdeprecated-declarations]
         pkt.destruct= NULL;
         ^
cc -MMD -MP -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -Ilibdvdread4  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT  -I/usr/include/freetype2 -c -o stream/stream_ffmpeg.o stream/stream_ffmpeg.c
cc -MMD -MP -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -Ilibdvdread4  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT  -I/usr/include/freetype2 -c -o sub/av_sub.o sub/av_sub.c
cc -MMD -MP -Wundef -Wall -Wno-switch -Wno-parentheses -Wpointer-arith -Wredundant-decls -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wdisabled-optimization -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdeclaration-after-statement -std=gnu99 -Werror-implicit-function-declaration -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D_ISOC99_SOURCE -I. -Iffmpeg -O4 -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-tree-vectorize -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -Ilibdvdread4  -fpie -DPIC -D_REENTRANT  -I/usr/include/freetype2 -c -o libmpcodecs/vf_fspp.o libmpcodecs/vf_fspp.c
libmpcodecs/vf_fspp.c:51:32: fatal error: libavutil/internal.h: No such file or directory
 #include "libavutil/internal.h"
                                ^
compilation terminated.
Makefile:758: recipe for target 'libmpcodecs/vf_fspp.o' failed
make: *** [libmpcodecs/vf_fspp.o] Error 1

I surely can't leave a 309K entire in here, but I can tell you that:

Code: Select all
# grep -i alsa <the-file-containing-the-entire-output-of-that-make>
#

returns empty string.

To alsa only through the intermediary, the Poettering's own pulseaudio! Why?

It I am not mistaken. Why?...
EDIT: This is part of the latest edit. Somewhat mistaken. I was missing some alsa*dev or such packages.

Actually the error reported at the end doesn't have any alse in it either, and I don't know what it means, that:
Code: Select all
make: *** [libmpcodecs/vf_fspp.o] Error 1


But alsa is conspicuously missing. Don't know what to do.

Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr

[1] I think I get it. I need to install some *alsa*dev or such packages. They are missing. This is the latest EDIT.

[2] Just to demonstrate a previous point for poeple needing to compile programs from upstream, and not apt-get them, the command was actually:

Code: Select all
make 2>&1 | tee /somewhere/mplayer_140912_`date +%H%M`_make.txt && find / -name '*' 2>&1 | tee /somewhere/FIND_`date +%y%m%d_%H%M`_`hostname`.txt && make install 2>&1 | tee /somewhere/mplayer_140912_`date +%H%M`_make_install.txt && find / -name '*' 2>&1 | tee /somewhere/FIND_`date +%y%m%d_%H%M`_`hostname`.txt &


And then the diff get's me what it would install, but make failed, in this case. But that is my way to track what was installed.

The 2>&1 | tee I explained here:

How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=117276&p=552864#p552775

And I sadly keep misposting things, somewhat. I meant this for that topic not this. But I hope it's not such bad confusion. Just as I posted some talk which wasn't purely technical there, and meant it here. Sorry!
timbgo
 
Posts: 265
Joined: 2013-04-14 12:17

Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-13 10:20

timbgo wrote:With mplayer goes also mencoder. And I use my old command line to capture DVB from an old TV card on whichever of the Debian boxes that I install the TV-card in (physically in the PCI-slot). If I were able to get that mencoder to do the work, that would be a major breakthrough.

Yes, getting mencoder to work on my no-dbus, no-systemd, no-policykit, no-pulseaudio, no-any-poetteringware, would be a major breakthrough, because it would without much doubt prove that potteringware is really just an overhead on top of real programs, that can perfectly, although not at all easily at the current state of affairs, be done away with.

I made it.
But give me time to pull myself together first.
It was costly in nerves. Looked impossible. It would have been almost easy if I had been informed, and no one is.

Rest first.

Miro
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby keithpeter » 2014-09-13 12:50

adenukolnis wrote:You will not have much of a system at all without the libdbus package. I install it since so many packages have it listed as a depends.

Code: Select all
keith@kona:~$ dpkg -l *dbus* | grep ii
ii  libdbus-1-3:i386      1.8.6-2      i386         simple interprocess messaging system (library)
ii  libdbus-glib-1-2:i386 0.102-1      i386         simple interprocess messaging system (GLib-based shared library)
keith@kona:~$ dpkg -l *systemd* | grep ii
keith@kona:~$

Managed to keep it down to just a couple of the libdbus libraries on the 'init agnostic' desktop (see signature link). The wpasupplicant package depends on one of these, and I need my wpa2 wifi! Dbus is in base so you have to remove it.
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby timbgo » 2014-09-13 16:20

keithpeter wrote:
adenukolnis wrote:You will not have much of a system at all without the libdbus package. I install it since so many packages have it listed as a depends.

Code: Select all
keith@kona:~$ dpkg -l *dbus* | grep ii
ii  libdbus-1-3:i386      1.8.6-2      i386         simple interprocess messaging system (library)
ii  libdbus-glib-1-2:i386 0.102-1      i386         simple interprocess messaging system (GLib-based shared library)
keith@kona:~$ dpkg -l *systemd* | grep ii
keith@kona:~$

Managed to keep it down to just a couple of the libdbus libraries on the 'init agnostic' desktop (see signature link). The wpasupplicant package depends on one of these, and I need my wpa2 wifi! Dbus is in base so you have to remove it.

But the quote doesn't contain (because it's in the signature) the page that put back the smile of on my face, as I've been recovering from some degree of exhaustion before my breakthrough (report still to be written):

An init agnostic old school desktop (Jessie)
http://sohcahtoa.org.uk/osd.html

On another note, I have to catch up with reading edbarx's thread:

The future with Systemd
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=116860&start=60#p552005

which also managed to slipped from my attention. Learned that it has grown much only from keithpeter's page above.

Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby buntunub » 2014-09-13 16:40

As a long time Debian user, I have to say that I am floored by the efforts you folks are putting forth on this. I applaud you! It appears to me that there is widespread discontent with the Systemd Corporate takeover, and it begs the question... How was the decision for Debian to move to Systemd made? Was it done using the Debian guidelines on such things?.. I recall when the decision was made to move to GNOME3 that the reasoning foisted upon us all was that GNOME2 was going to be discontinued, and that may have been true, but is SysVInit being discontinued? If not, then WHY the wholesale move to Systemd?

Think on this. If Debian decided to stick with SysVInit, would that negatively impact Debian in any way? For instance, would dependancies become a problem in future Testing distros? I can see how that could become a problem in the very long term, but I do not think that is an excuse to abandoned the core Linux philosophy since its founding. Many big names in the Linux world have asked the questions, and to my knowledge, there has been no reasoned debate on the adoption of Systemd. There was just a dictatorial decision made on high. This is not the Debian way, and TBH, it is the Debian community that must bring this to heel.
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby edbarx » 2014-09-13 17:39

To add insult to injury, systemd was voted for, with the blessing of a casting vote! :shock:

systemd and similarly written software, is an attack on modularity, greatly harming the flexibility for which GNU/Linux is well known. systemd & co are clearly aimed at creating yet another Windows.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby keithpeter » 2014-09-13 18:36

buntunub wrote:As a long time Debian user, I have to say that I am floored by the efforts you folks are putting forth on this.

In my case, just half a day's work and a couple of test installs on an old laptop. Edbarx and adenukolnis are doing a lot of mapping out and reading source code &c. I'm just testing their findings.

Keep an eye on the *BSD world, e.g OpenBSD, FreeBSD. They have no choice but to find a way out of this mud ball as they do not have the resources to fork whole desktop environments and sub-systems like dbus and even udev.

buntunub wrote:Many big names in the Linux world have asked the questions, and to my knowledge, there has been no reasoned debate on the adoption of Systemd.

Read Cathedral and Bazar (esr). I think the desktop environments started wiring systems together to make things slicker and allow plug and play. Then the systemd people sort of worked round what was there. The result is multiple intertwingling random walks. GNU/Linux does not have an overall design as such, just thousands of detailed decisions that edge one way then another, but which get 'frozen in' as we move forward. Debian was the last major distro to switch to systemd and is the only one that is preserving alternatives to my knowledge.

Interesting that the small projects (Slackware, *BSDs) are the ones taking an opinionated line on this based on overall architecture.

edbarx wrote:To add insult to injury, systemd was voted for, with the blessing of a casting vote! :shock:

Remember that we have 10 to 20 years of systemd because of the adoption in the EL world (RHEL, Centos, Oracle &c) with their 10 year support horizons. Irrespective of the Tech Committee's vote, systemd would be out there and upstream projects would be assuming its presence to some extent.

I think that the story is about supporting diversity and promoting modularity as ebarx and others keep saying.
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Re: How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?

Postby edbarx » 2014-09-13 18:53

In 10 or 20 years, there will be developments, and the negative impact of projects like systemd, will be attenuated. GNU/Linux works much like biological systems: there is no centralised control, and yet, it worked for at least the time it existed. systemd and co. is an attempt at streamlining GNU/Linux, especially GNU desktops, but the great drawback of this approach is, this same strategy kills diversity at the core of the system. It also takes away modularity which allowed many diverse systems to be configured straight from the kernel upwards.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
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