The future with Systemd

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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby somebodyelse » 2015-09-14 16:29

But Debian has kept ALL of its promises, which are what made it Debian in the first place. Yet here you all are wanting to throw away all the good work that Debian does for ethical/free software because systemd? You're all completely crazy and you'll miss it once you've killed it.

I've now given up on Debian and Linux more generally. Not because of anything Debian has done but because of you lot constantly grinding on about systemd as if that architectural decision, taken legitimately according to Debian's rules and which doesn't invalidate any of the promises that Debian has made, breaks the distribution.

Red Hat already owns enteprise, so that conspiracy is misplaced.

Really sad that you guys can kill something great because you were too disorganised and not sufficiently forward thinking to make sure you built the software or had access to the software that would make the system what you want. Red Hat has not forced systemd on you (which is why SUSE is also happy to use it). It has built key components based on its needs. You rely on those components, therefore you rely on those components' dependencies i.e. systemd. But nah, a fire and brimstone conspiracy is so much more fun. No one can force you to do anything in FOSS but sometimes you have to build what you need yourself.

I'm tired of this "look what they did to us" wimpy mentality. Take responsibility for your own system/software development.

I'm out. So long and thanks for all the sulks.
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby golinux » 2015-09-14 16:36

somebodyelse wrote:I'm out. So long and thanks for all the sulks.
Hallelujah! Don't let the door hit you yada, yada . . .
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby Danielsan » 2015-09-14 17:11

I didn't understand why I can't express my personal opinion, for me is bright like the sun, but I am not the truth nor either the bible of computer science.
Anyway the history of the corporations and in particular the history of software corporations is full of conspiracies, patent trolling, EEE and more.

So the question is how long is going to take systemd to incorporate a package management system?
And what is going to happen after that?

Check this out this link: http://w3techs.com/technologies/details ... ux/all/all
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby dasein » 2015-09-14 18:54

golinux wrote:
somebodyelse wrote:I'm out. So long and thanks for all the sulks.
Hallelujah! Don't let the door hit you yada, yada . . .

Don't get too excited. When a troll using an alt/sock puppet account says this, what s/he really means is "I'm going to start using a different alt/sock puppet account to troll with."
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby goulo » 2015-09-14 20:23

somebodyelse wrote:But Debian has kept ALL of its promises, which are what made it Debian in the first place. Yet here you all are wanting to throw away all the good work that Debian does for ethical/free software because systemd? You're all completely crazy and you'll miss it once you've killed it.

I've now given up on Debian and Linux more generally. Not because of anything Debian has done but because of you lot constantly grinding on about systemd

Yet here you are, giving up on all the good work of Debian (and Linux more generally), just because of systemd haters? You're completely crazy and inconsistent, and you'll miss it...
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2015-09-14 21:05

If Systemd is such a big problem, why not just stay with Wheezy, even after it's LTS ends? It's not like 2012. software will be outdated anytime soon for most of us UNIX lovers. We have old hardware already, surely older than 2012.

I bet Wheezy after LTS will still be safer and more secure than future Systemd Debian.
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby Randicus » 2015-09-14 22:46

Wheelerof4te wrote:If Systemd is such a big problem, why not just stay with Wheezy, even after it's LTS ends? It's not like 2012. software will be outdated anytime soon for most of us UNIX lovers. We have old hardware already, surely older than 2012.
The problem is not the age of software, but lack of security updates. The system will continue to work fine, but will have potential security vulnerabilities if connected to the internet.

goulo wrote:
somebodyelse wrote:But Debian has kept ALL of its promises, which are what made it Debian in the first place. Yet here you all are wanting to throw away all the good work that Debian does for ethical/free software because systemd? You're all completely crazy and you'll miss it once you've killed it.

I've now given up on Debian and Linux more generally. Not because of anything Debian has done but because of you lot constantly grinding on about systemd

Yet here you are, giving up on all the good work of Debian (and Linux more generally), just because of systemd haters? You're completely crazy and inconsistent, and you'll miss it...
Yes that makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Plus the ridiculously naive belief:
No one can force you to do anything in FOSS but sometimes you have to build what you need yourself.
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby spacex » 2015-09-14 23:27

Wheelerof4te wrote:If Systemd is such a big problem, why not just stay with Wheezy, even after it's LTS ends? It's not like 2012. software will be outdated anytime soon for most of us UNIX lovers. We have old hardware already, surely older than 2012.

I bet Wheezy after LTS will still be safer and more secure than future Systemd Debian.


Talk for yourself. I even have an almost 20 year old toshiba sattellite, working like a charm. But still, I prefer to use my new hardware, and I have lots of hardware that is newer than 2012. I even have a self-buildt desktop pc with all the newest hardware. It's not like all linux-users are on old hardware, and not every one is in debian primarely to run old unix-servers. Actually, I assume that most Debian users have no interest at all in the server-side of things. They are home-users that use Debian for exactly the same reason as other people is using Windows or Mac.

Let's quit this vanity. We "geeks" are no longer so much different than other people. We do all the same things. Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Netflix, Skype, Spotify, gaming, photo and video-editing, the occasional use of websites with contains full frontal nudity..etc, all the usual things. Just like normal people. The only difference is that we have the interest and ability to tweak the enviroment that we do all that stuff in.

We have old hardware already???? Really?
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby Randicus » 2015-09-14 23:32

spacex wrote: We do all the same things. Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Netflix, Skype, Spotify
Speak for yourself. :D I have never seen any of them and have never heard of Snapchat.

the occasional use of websites with contains full frontal nudity..etc,
I would never do that! :lol:
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-09-14 23:36

why not just stay with Wheezy, even after it's LTS ends? It's not like 2012. software will be outdated anytime soon

+1
Not only linux software, but any "old software" (or most) . I still have DOS programs that were written back in the 90's, and they still run fine on "free dos", and even on newer computers. "just saying", ... there are 1000s of alternatives, if one really does not want to use any given OS, or distro that is newly released, and perhaps does not work well on older hard ware.
On the other hand modern technology is constantly and rapidly changing, the future has things coming, that none of us , or very few even come close to comprehending, it seems to me, a lot involved with systemd, is way beyond the average person or linux users ability to control, in a nut shell, we are using something "given" to us, free of charge, but unfortunately there are many (or perhaps just a few) huge corporate businesses that "contribute" large sums of money, it makes sense that the , developers are going to be influenced by that, and try to provide a system that keeps the financial contributions coming in. It really is a matter of "powers and principalities".
As the world heads toward a "World Government", this is only to be expected,
by Danielsan »but I am not the truth nor either the bible of computer science.

Interesting, comment, there is a book that tells the truth though, not every body believes it though either. But makes for interesting reading, "the bible of computer science" probably would be interesting too,..
What I am trying to say though, is it only makes sense that the "powers" and "powers to be" will make every effort to force the world into using 1 OS, or a OS that is accepted, by the "main system", and in order to control the masses, etc. it is essential for them to be able to monitor the activity of anyone accessing or using the "system" .
Eventually, anyone that does not accept nor become part of that system, will become "outcasts" in the eyes of "society", they will be hunted down and killed, or placed in institutions, many will be labeled , or called "terrorists", and other things. This is just the "tip" of the "iceberg" so to speak. I don't know, similar to what Danielssn says, " I am not the truth", and I really know nothing, compared to the "powers" above me, but that is the way I see it.
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby golinux » 2015-09-14 23:37

I'm with you Randicus . . . none of that s**t interests me either.
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-09-14 23:46

golinux wrote:I'm with you Randicus . . . none of that s**t interests me either.

Me neither, not everybody is the same, and saying "we" is a very broad statement.But I have all ways been kind of a "loner" sort, ..we ,my family and a few friends, do things differently then "they" (the other people) do.Of course though, "they" are not bad people, just different "tastes", and I don't think "we" are to bad, we still seem to get along with most of them, in spite of differences in life styles.
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby spacex » 2015-09-15 00:05

Nope, most of that stuff doesn't interest me either, but I don't regard myself, Randicus or Golinux for that matter, as the average Debian-user. If Debian s target-group were people like us, then Debian would be used by less people people than there are people posting in this community. How many frequents this community regularly? 20? Personally I feel that this number is a strecth...

So nope, we aren't the "Debian-users". Some of us use derivatives, some use Arch, Gentoo, FreeBSD etc..., and others use highly personalized, tweaked, and hacked custom installs of Debian, that hardly have anything in common with Debian, except the sources.list. None of us needs Debian to do anything for us. We will be fine regardless.
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby edbarx » 2015-09-16 05:57

others use highly personalized, tweaked, and hacked custom installs of Debian, that hardly have anything in common with Debian, except the sources.list.

This is a contradiction. :?
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
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Re: The future with Systemd

Postby spacex » 2015-09-16 09:00

edbarx wrote:
others use highly personalized, tweaked, and hacked custom installs of Debian, that hardly have anything in common with Debian, except the sources.list.

This is a contradiction. :?


It depends how you look at it. The fact that the packages for the most part comes from Debian doesn't necessarily make it close to Debian. Because just as important as the source, is the compilation itself, what defaults are being used, and how the system is configured. When I talk about having anything in common with Debian itself, then I talk about the default vanilla Debian install, as Debian themselves present it in a full debian install.
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