Systemd violates social contract

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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby tomazzi » 2014-10-19 20:42

keithpeter wrote:However, this is essentially *gardening* (pruning here, shaping there) not creative work. I hate to be blunt about this but we sometimes forget where the actual creativity is. Of course in a number of cases the Debian packager for a project is the developer her/himself.


Well, actually I can't agree... The problem with upstream software is that the authors rarely take into account the existence of other projects, so the most of efforts taken by distro maintainers is to patch a "generic" version of a program to work nicely with others...
So in fact, maintainers of a distro are those who essentially are getting the things to work - not the authors of particular programs...

Of course this is a generalisation - each particular case would have to be examined separately, if we would like to have representative results.

Besides, there is a whole class of applications, which are distribution-independant (mostly the desktop apps) - and in such case it's relatively simple task to package them.

Regards.
Odi profanum vulgus
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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby shevegen » 2015-07-19 18:22

Without Debian decision, RedHat would have no chances to force systemd by only buying GNOME team.
But everyone can be bought - this is the first time in Debian history where untested, unfinished and low quality project was chosen to be a core system component...


That is true, however had it happens to other projects as well.

I call it the ubuntu-fication of Linux.

The problem is that this is not a customer-driven approach, it is a developer-driven approach.

Systemd is more complicated to learn and handle compared to the old variants.

Saying that "it is larger than just init" means that due to its viral nature, and its ever expanding need for more lines of code to satisfy a clique of developers
taking over more and more of a linux system - see the requirements to compile software; have you tried to get something to run without udev? - means
that it will offer no alternatives.

init has already been abandoned by debian, without asking the users.

For me it is no issue, I abandoned debian many years ago anyway, but for other users they will be alienated when they can no longer CHOOSE on their own.
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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby Roel63 » 2015-07-19 18:41

shevegen wrote:I abandoned debian many years ago anyway, but for other users they will be alienated when they can no longer CHOOSE on their own.


So after many years you come here to open old systemd topics just to show your dismay?
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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby runfrodorun » 2015-08-23 14:27

Lol :P We all got to participate in the package usage survey and do 'apt-get -y install sysvinit-core'! see what happens :P

-RJ
Much opinionated.
Some abrasive.
No systemd.
Wow.
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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby somebodyelse » 2015-08-23 16:46

Could someone point me to the part where this thread asserts (wrongly) that systemd violates the social contract.
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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-08-23 16:59

Roel63 wrote:
shevegen wrote:I abandoned debian many years ago anyway, but for other users they will be alienated when they can no longer CHOOSE on their own.


So after many years you come here to open old systemd topics just to show your dismay?

That is what "trolls" do.
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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby buntunub » 2015-08-23 17:10

GarryRicketson wrote:
Roel63 wrote:
shevegen wrote:I abandoned debian many years ago anyway, but for other users they will be alienated when they can no longer CHOOSE on their own.


So after many years you come here to open old systemd topics just to show your dismay?

That is what "trolls" do.


I agree. I think this is a prime candidate for locking. A new thread can always be opened later if folks want to continue to hash this out.
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Re: Systemd violates social contract

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-08-23 18:01

I agree. I think this is a prime candidate for locking. A new thread can always be opened later if folks want to continue to hash this out.

I am not able to do that, but do agree.
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