That is exactly the point. Some people, VERY rarely, have the chutspa to stick with their values over money and livelihood. This is so rare in the entire human races existence that we have called these people, "heroes". We do not have any of those in the Linux world right now other than arguably, RMS. Right now at this exact moment in time, WE NEED ONE!keithpeter wrote: Perhaps this is the central issue? For Mr (Dr?) Poettering, a younger man, this is a career delivering value for his employer. Not a social mission. Times change.
A) All filesystem-based or filesystem-representable IPC mechanisms (notably pipes), can't be used because of a lack of a world-writable directory, where all processes can mkfifo/create the filesystem/socket representation of their IPC port (/dev/socket notwithstanding, which is used for system processes, e.g. rile, zygote, and their ilk).
B) None of the suggested mechanisms have the capability of "service location" which is required for Android. In UNIX, there's an RPC portmapper, and Android needs similar functionality. Enter: The ServiceManager, which can use binder to register as a context manager, to register/lookup service handles on the fly
C) There is an extensive need for serialization - be it intents, or other messages. Binder provides the parcel abstraction, which can be used for data marshaling by the Parcel.java.
D) SysV has other issues than Mr. Lambada's answer which are more paramount, notably race conditions, and lack of authorization.
E) Message queues and pipes can't pass descriptors. UNIX Domain sockets may, but can't be used because of (A) (again, unless you're root/system, like zygote, rild, installd..)
F) Binder is really lightweight, and has built-in authorization mechanisms. It also has nifty features like waking up the recipient process, as well as memory sharing, which the other mechanisms simply don't have. (and remember, no mmap(2), because of the file problem in (A) for named mappings).
and - let's not forget
G) Binder was started at Palm (ah, nostalgia) (q.v. OpenBinder). Ex-palmers got to Android, and brought their code in with them.
People who are on dial-up and who want their email be downloaded before they wake will switch to systemd.twoflowers wrote:This looks good
BTW, alarmclock in systemd ... or how to replace cron by somthing much more complicated:
https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/a_program ... g_systemd/
Now that's a knee slapper, lol.fruitofloom wrote:People who are on dial-up and who want their email be downloaded before they wake will switch to systemd.twoflowers wrote:This looks good
BTW, alarmclock in systemd ... or how to replace cron by somthing much more complicated:
https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/a_program ... g_systemd/
All 42 of them.
Really?Linadian wrote: At the time of this post, 34 against/something other than virusd and 32 for its implementation. Judging by the results, approximately 25% of Debian users will be jumping ship, that's a quarter of the user base.
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
Same with GCC, a hackjob got a monopoly since the beginning of time but I don't get to choose a Linux system built fully with ICC or LLVM/CLang with musl as libc. Init systems are the least of our worries when it comes to choice.dilberts_left_nut wrote: And, again FWIW, I don't get a choice of which glibc to use either - along with pretty much every other linux, Debian has "forced libc6 down my throat"
Well, of course Jessie will be fine, and the systemd 'middleware' will run smoothly. Red Hat have bet the farm on systemd just working for the workloads they support, and, as you say that awesome army of volunteer devs that Debian has will keep hammering the bugs out.dilberts_left_nut wrote:For mine, the Debian project gets the benefit of the doubt, based on past experience, and I remain to be convinced that the world is coming to an end.
As always, new releases will get extensive testing prior to migration of my servers, but I'm not expecting a whole lot of drama from the stable upgrades.
FWIW, my sid install on my laptop is running as well as ever.
Of course it is impossible to prove how many will leave due to systemd.dilberts_left_nut wrote:Really?Linadian wrote: At the time of this post, 34 against/something other than virusd and 32 for its implementation. Judging by the results, approximately 25% of Debian users will be jumping ship, that's a quarter of the user base.
Looks like (almost) 25% of respondents to THIS poll on THIS forum profess to be considering leaving Debian.
I would be very surprised if that is representative of the Debian user base as a whole.
Mine too. All of them (until i replaced them with other OS'es, of course)FWIW, my sid install on my laptop is running as well as ever.
Yes, if you are using a GNU operating system then GNU will, obviously, be forced down your throad. And if you use a GNU/Linux system, then you can add the Linux kernel to that attack too.And, again FWIW, I don't get a choice of which glibc to use either - along with pretty much every other linux, Debian has "forced libc6 down my throat".
Indeed. Joey Hess being a prime recent example (and yes I know who else you mean as well).fruitofloom wrote:What matters more is the quality, not the quantity of the people who will leave (have left already).
In this we agree entirely, and my previous post was framed on what I currently intend to "do" about systemd (as per the topic and poll) coming to Debian and what that entails for the systems I run.At the end of the day the only thing which matters to me is what i am doing
Again, that proportion would surprise me, but guessing numbers is pointless - it will be what it will be.Short version: From what i read to me it looks as if 25% leaving sounds possible. Make it 15 % or 30%, if it makes you happy.
Well that is exactly the point of my answer to the question.Mine too. All of them (until i replaced them with other OS'es, of course)FWIW, my sid install on my laptop is running as well as ever.
That is not the point.
If you're talking about the politics and arguing, then probably yesThat is the Debian way of doing things? Really ?
edit: I don't recall reading that particular analogy before, but I must confess that all the systemd threads end up looking pretty much the same most of the time and I tend to 'glaze over' occasionally....-------------Yes, if you are using a GNU operating system then GNU will, obviously, be forced down your throad. And if you use a GNU/Linux system, then you can add the Linux kernel to that attack too.And, again FWIW, I don't get a choice of which glibc to use either - along with pretty much every other linux, Debian has "forced libc6 down my throat".
Not that smart an argument, no need to repeat it (yes, i have read it too, like all others. Less smart posting/repeating it here than you might have assumed).
I expect more from someone like you. That really is close to insulting your own intelligence (and the one of the readers. A few are not idiots. At least keep them in mind when writing something).
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
).You can back peddle, whitewash, Jim Jones, puppies, rainbows and unicorns all you want, when the smoke clears, it's still a BETA proprietary blob that has too much control over one's system and will be forced on people, like I said in a different post, make meta-packages, that way people can uninstall it if they want, but oh, wait, devs are supposed to write typical everyday apps around dictatord. If I wanted this kind of $#1+, I would have stayed with Windows, f#%k Redhat and f#%k Poettering. I'm already testing Salix on my old machine, I should be switched long before your NSA-ware Debhat "hits the servers".dilberts_left_nut wrote:Really?Linadian wrote: At the time of this post, 34 against/something other than virusd and 32 for its implementation. Judging by the results, approximately 25% of Debian users will be jumping ship, that's a quarter of the user base.
Looks like (almost) 25% of respondents to THIS poll on THIS forum profess to be considering leaving Debian.
I would be very surprised if that is representative of the Debian user base as a whole.
For mine, the Debian project gets the benefit of the doubt, based on past experience, and I remain to be convinced that the world is coming to an end.
As always, new releases will get extensive testing prior to migration of my servers, but I'm not expecting a whole lot of drama from the stable upgrades.
FWIW, my sid install on my laptop is running as well as ever.
And, again FWIW, I don't get a choice of which glibc to use either - along with pretty much every other linux, Debian has "forced libc6 down my throat". I wonder if Ulrich Drepper is an arrogant prick?
edit: I hope you're not using ReiserFS
