Where will you go after systemd?

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!

Where will you go after systemd?

BSD
12
16%
Linux without systemd
34
47%
Mac
2
3%
Windows
0
No votes
something totally different
1
1%
have not decided yet
24
33%
 
Total votes : 73

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby Deb-fan » 2015-01-24 10:41

Thanks MALsPa,

Deb-fan = lmintnewb and lmintnewb2, lol. Ya might or not remember that user from LM forum. Stuck around trying to help out longgggggg after I'd quit using LM. Definitely thanks for the info, it's not as outdated a version as I was thinking it might be. Isn't newest ... but isn't the 2010 version either THANK de gawds !

Now for the million dollar question. What do you think about it, how has it been acting on your install(s) and hardware ? Have you tried pulling in a newer version of systemd + assoc packages yet ? Certainly curious and am sure others here are too.

The noob thing, that's a good sign fellow nixer. Think if someone has the right attitude they'll forever consider themselves a gnu/nix newb. Cause someone could use it for 20yrs and still learn something new ( or 4,000 summin's new everyday. Right ? :) )

Have more than once thought even people like Linus Torvald find something new, that they didn't know about FOSS all the time and stop and think to themselves. Hmmmm that's frickin cool, gotta bookmark this and mess with it some more later. :P
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *
Deb-fan
 
Posts: 1035
Joined: 2012-08-14 12:27

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby MALsPa » 2015-01-24 11:05

Deb-fan wrote:What do you think about it, how has it been acting on your install(s) and hardware ? Have you tried pulling in a newer version of systemd + assoc packages yet ?

I haven't noticed any problems so far. I haven't tried installing a newer version of systemd in Jessie. As far as what I think about it, systemd's fine with me. sysvinit was, too. I've got more important things going on in my life to be concerned about. My computer boots up, I'm happy.
MALsPa
 
Posts: 666
Joined: 2007-12-07 19:20
Location: albuquerque

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-24 11:31

MALsPa wrote:
Deb-fan wrote:Seen Head_O_S other places and he's always thoughtful and provides legit info from what I've ever seen. He says the option is in the installer, then I totally believe it. That would clearly mean, Debian HQ isn't forcing it down anyone's throat.

I'm not one of those who's bailing on Debian because of systemd. I've done a few Jessie installations -- got Jessie on two computers right now -- but I didn't notice any option in the installer about which init system to install. Not sure how I could have missed something like that.

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=774939

It's not an option in the installer -- when GRUB is installed, it provides a menu entry for booting with SysVinit.

If you try re-configuring your GRUB menu with the latest version of GRUB, it should provide the menu entries:
Code: Select all
# grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg


@confuselling alerted everyone to this here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=119910
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 13450
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby schnuller » 2015-01-24 11:47

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:[

If you try re-configuring your GRUB menu with the latest version of GRUB, it should provide the menu entries:
Code: Select all
# grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg



You can't use one of the Debian specific solutions to add sysv as an option?
Or are we already beyond all differences between different distributions, anything specific willl be removed to make it all the same ?

For what it's worth: I haven't used grub-mkconfig once in all the years. I didn't even know it exists, until a few seconds ago.
schnuller
 
Posts: 386
Joined: 2014-11-25 05:05

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-24 12:09

schnuller wrote:You can't use one of the Debian specific solutions to add sysv as an option?
Or are we already beyond all differences between different distributions, anything specific willl be removed to make it all the same ?

For what it's worth: I haven't used grub-mkconfig once in all the years. I didn't even know it exists, until a few seconds ago.

Well yes you could also use `update-grub` -- I prefer to write my own grub.cfg these days; the scripts are a hack-job from hell...

It is possible to simply add a kernel parameter to boot with "init=/lib/sysvinit/init" instead -- this is what the GRUB update does ;)
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 13450
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby schnuller » 2015-01-24 12:45

I also had dpkg-reconfigure in mind.
As far i remember update-grub never let me down, so i assume that is what i used all the time (might be i had to add FreeBSD or Hurd "manually" in /etc/grub.d).
Iow: I always use the most easy solution (Else there wouldn't have been a reason to use Debian over all those years).
schnuller
 
Posts: 386
Joined: 2014-11-25 05:05

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby MALsPa » 2015-01-24 13:04

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:It's not an option in the installer -- when GRUB is installed, it provides a menu entry for booting with SysVinit.

Ah. I don't see the menu entry here, but this is grub-pc 2.02~beta2-19. I'm guessing it's there in grub-pc 2.02~beta2-20, which I see is in sid.
MALsPa
 
Posts: 666
Joined: 2007-12-07 19:20
Location: albuquerque

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-24 13:25

MALsPa wrote:Ah. I don't see the menu entry here, but this is grub-pc 2.02~beta2-19. I'm guessing it's there in grub-pc 2.02~beta2-20, which I see is in sid.

I have the options after updating GRUB in jessie (version 2.02~beta2-19); do you have all the required SysV packages?
Code: Select all
# apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim

EDIT: You can test if your system will boot under SysVinit by appending the "init=/lib/sysvinit/init" parameter to your kernel command line after pressing "e" at the GRUB menu (<Ctrl>+x to boot after changing the line).
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 13450
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby MALsPa » 2015-01-24 13:40

No -- I realized after posting that I'd probably have to actually install sysvinit first. :lol:

And then probably run update-grub, if installing sysvinit, etc., didn't cause update-grub to be run already.
MALsPa
 
Posts: 666
Joined: 2007-12-07 19:20
Location: albuquerque

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby Deb-fan » 2015-01-24 16:15

Another thanks 2 Head_O_S for interesting, useful info. Thanks 2 MALsPa for that too. Seems Debian isn't throwing people into a shark tank. Also thanks to others for what you shared that didn't involve FUD and/or flaming other people in the community for no good reason. Well other than they had the impertinence to disagree with xyz persons FUD.

Edit: On second thought, not allowing someone to make me sink to their level. So got rid of a bunch of harsh contents ... Sighs. Rather just keep the sentiment below instead.

***Peace in the middle east and good vibes and wishes to good nixers everywhere***
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *
Deb-fan
 
Posts: 1035
Joined: 2012-08-14 12:27

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby tomazzi » 2015-01-25 03:22

bdtc1 wrote:
tomazzi wrote:Now tell me how to report this, as those are not bugs directly related to Debian, and are hard to reproduce.


We get Debian security updates all the time, saying that someone found that package "xyx" failed to do "abc", which might cause "def", based on source-code review. It doesn't have to be experienced or reproduced. I think that what you are finding should be reported via the official Debian infrastructure as release-critical bugs. Bring it all to light. A list of 30-40 critical bug reports has to get someone's attention. This is stuff which can freeze servers and destroy data.


OK, here's my report, containing only few (already mentioned) problems - I'm just curious what will happen...
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-January/027386.html

Regards.
Odi profanum vulgus
tomazzi
 
Posts: 730
Joined: 2013-08-02 21:33

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-25 11:34

tomazzi wrote:OK, here's my report, containing only few (already mentioned) problems - I'm just curious what will happen...
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-January/027386.html

Regards.

Thank you very much for that -- hopefully this will improve systemd for the benefit of all users :)
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 13450
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby twoflowers » 2015-01-25 18:52

If you want systemd in debian to be reconsidered, it'd be a good idea to post all these bugs on the debian bugtracker and not on freedesktop.org.
twoflowers
 

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby mardybear » 2015-01-25 19:06

Just some Sunday systemd haha.
http://fossforce.com/2015/01/top-ten-th ... t-systemd/
Top Ten Things Linux Users Say About systemd
FOSS Force

Back about four or five years ago, when FOSS Force was just a young whippersnapper yelling to be heard, we found people first noticing us when we dreamed up a unique weekly feature we cleverly called the Top Ten List. It was an immediate success. Unfortunately, we can’t claim credit for originating the concept, as Michael J. Fox saw one of our lists on his DeLorean’s dashboard computer while on a foray into the twenty-first century, and told someone at NBC when back home in the eighties, who told David Letterman. We lost out when Letterman used it on his show and took credit for it — even though it was our idea years later in the first place. Thanks, David.

Until now, we thought the days of the Top Ten on FOSS Force were long gone. However, the systemd brouhaha has awakened the inner Top Ten List that has been sleeping within us for all these years. Today, for one day only, the Top Ten List returns for one last encore — or the last one until the next time something tickles us funny.

Ladies and gentlemen, from the home office in Omaha, Nebraska, here is this week’s Top Ten List — the top ten things Linux users say about systemd.

10. Shouldn’t that be capitalized?

9. It can’t be very good if all it got was a D.

8. I think that’s some kind of thing that Microsoft hangs on their servers.

7. We developers know what’s best.

6. systemd? Where’s my gun?

5. Will I still be able to watch Netflix?

4. Not nearly educated enough on the issue to make an informed assessment currently.

3. I don’t know nothing but I know what’s best and systemd ain’t it.

2. systemd? systemd? We don’t need no stinking systemd.

1. Things were going kinda good around here until you brought that systemd to the party.
800mhz, 512mb ram, dCore-jessie (Tiny Core with Debian Jessie packages) with BusyBox and Fluxbox.
Most don't have computer access, reuse or pay forward an old computer.
User avatar
mardybear
 
Posts: 994
Joined: 2014-01-19 03:30

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

Postby tomazzi » 2015-01-26 01:35

twoflowers wrote:If you want systemd in debian to be reconsidered, it'd be a good idea to post all these bugs on the debian bugtracker and not on freedesktop.org.


Actually, after Ian Jackson's GR have been rejected, I see no hope for Debian.
That GR was completely logical: <simplification> if Your calculator program have a hard dependancy on a kind of init system, then this is simply stupid (saying gently).
This alone leaves no hope for reconsidering the choice of default init system.

Debian (or perhaps only some of the developers) have worked hard to reject that GR, so for me, it means that Debian is lost. Not direclty due to adopting of systemd, but because political reasons were preferred over technical/logical ones in this case.

Therefore, I've decided to write my own init system, compatible with systemd, so I'll be able to use Debian repositories, but without having to use systemd. And soon nobody will be able to use Debian (but also most of other distros) without systemd.

Regards.

ps. in the mean time, I'v got 1 response for my report, regarding 1 of the reported bugs. I've responded to that email, but for some rason it wasn't added to a thread - so if someone is interrested, here it is:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-January/027395.html
Odi profanum vulgus
tomazzi
 
Posts: 730
Joined: 2013-08-02 21:33

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

fashionable