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Where will you go after systemd?

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!

Where will you go after systemd?

BSD
12
16%
Linux without systemd
34
47%
Mac
2
3%
Windows
0
No votes
something totally different
1
1%
have not decided yet
24
33%
 
Total votes: 73

Message
Author
mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#31 Post by mean_dean »

schnuller wrote:
Randicus wrote:
TonyVanDam wrote:I'm also wanting to see which of the BSD will finally makes it debut in the top 10 of Distrowatch for the first time ever
All important decisions should be made according to DistroWatch's "list."
Either by that or by what cynwulf does. If he uses Slackware, go for Slackware. If he uses BSD, go for BSD ... etc.
I couldn't get into slackware or else I would do-what-cynwulf-do too :D

bodiless wrote:I'll probably stay with another linux systemd-free distro.
I figure in a few years there won't be a systemd free linux distro...it will just be systemlinuxd

TonyVanDam
Posts: 67
Joined: 2013-05-17 19:22

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#32 Post by TonyVanDam »

Randicus wrote:
TonyVanDam wrote:I'm also wanting to see which of the BSD will finally makes it debut in the top 10 of Distrowatch for the first time ever
All important decisions should be made according to DistroWatch's "list." :roll:
If popularity on that list is used to determine which system to use, then Mint or Ubuntu should chosen.

Excuse you, but I choose the "play it safe" approach concerning BSD. If I decide to go the BSD route, I will only use the BSD distro that has the most support. My computers, my choice.

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aicardi
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#33 Post by aicardi »

TonyVanDam wrote:
Excuse you, but I choose the "play it safe" approach concerning BSD. If I decide to go the BSD route, I will only use the BSD distro that has the most support. My computers, my choice.
BSD has been around a long, long time. All (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD) are very well supported and documented.
Popular, and "playing it safe" are two different animals.
Mint and Ubuntu are far from "playing it safe" yet they remain at the top of the Distrowatch list.
Jessie/Xfce

schnuller
Posts: 386
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#34 Post by schnuller »

aicardi wrote:For the most part I have pretty much moved over to NetBSD.
...
I really wish people would realize what kind of users are leaving Debian (not how many).

In other words: I got a high respect for the posts you made, they always were well informed and of a high level.

Sorry to abuse you for my trolling against systemd (in case it bugs you. If it bugs you too much, let me know and i will del the post).

Randicus
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#35 Post by Randicus »

TonyVanDam wrote:Excuse you, but I choose the "play it safe" approach concerning BSD. If I decide to go the BSD route, I will only use the BSD distro that has the most support.
In other words, you do not understand my post. DistroWatch's "ranking" measures the number of hits each distro gets on the DW website, which measures how many people are clicking on each distro to get information on DW. It does not measure how many people use each distribution and has no relevance to quality or level of support. Which is why I pointed out that if DW is used to choose a system, one would choose either Ubuntu or Mint.
My computers, my choice.
I could not care less which system you use. It is also your choice to make an informed decision or follow DistroWatch's rankings.

TonyVanDam
Posts: 67
Joined: 2013-05-17 19:22

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#36 Post by TonyVanDam »

aicardi wrote:
TonyVanDam wrote:
Excuse you, but I choose the "play it safe" approach concerning BSD. If I decide to go the BSD route, I will only use the BSD distro that has the most support. My computers, my choice.
BSD has been around a long, long time. All (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD) are very well supported and documented.
Popular, and "playing it safe" are two different animals.
Mint and Ubuntu are far from "playing it safe" yet they remain at the top of the Distrowatch list.
Looks like I have some more reading to do. Thanks. :mrgreen:

TonyVanDam
Posts: 67
Joined: 2013-05-17 19:22

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#37 Post by TonyVanDam »

Randicus wrote:
TonyVanDam wrote:Excuse you, but I choose the "play it safe" approach concerning BSD. If I decide to go the BSD route, I will only use the BSD distro that has the most support.
In other words, you do not understand my post. DistroWatch's "ranking" measures the number of hits each distro gets on the DW website, which measures how many people are clicking on each distro to get information on DW. It does not measure how many people use each distribution and has no relevance to quality or level of support. Which is why I pointed out that if DW is used to choose a system, one would choose either Ubuntu or Mint.
My computers, my choice.
I could not care less which system you use. It is also your choice to make an informed decision or follow DistroWatch's rankings.
Actually, I didn't understand you misquoting my earlier post or the horrible attitude that came with it (READ: you eyerolls!).

schnuller
Posts: 386
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#38 Post by schnuller »

TonyVanDam wrote:
aicardi wrote:
TonyVanDam wrote:
Excuse you, but I choose the "play it safe" approach concerning BSD. If I decide to go the BSD route, I will only use the BSD distro that has the most support. My computers, my choice.
BSD has been around a long, long time. All (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD) are very well supported and documented.
Popular, and "playing it safe" are two different animals..


Looks like I have some more reading to do. Thanks. :mrgreen:
Let me give you a +1 to give one of the BSD systems a try (the 3 mentioned ones)
They sure are solid, stable and "simple" (in the meaning of kiss, keep it simple, lack of bloat). As far i can tell, of course.
They lack a bit of the comfort which comes with (many, but not all) linux distributions. I said: a bit. It's users are often weird and very annoying (for the same reasons linux users assume - wrongly - they would be geeks only by running linux, they would be geeks compared to linux users. Their main goal seems to be to piss about linux being crap, about bashisms, about gnuisms, etc and else to answer questions only by pointing to the handbook or the manual, if they answer it at all ). You said it yourself, btw: "horrible attitude".

Deb-fan
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#39 Post by Deb-fan »

Well ... I'd like to start by commenting on a matter of great importance. I hate all you people for making me open 50 tabs, to read about stuff, GOT THAT !?!? ... good. Also I'm kidding folks, also GOT THAT !?!? also good. :)
Prepost note: What follows is mostly typed in ignorance. Read on at your own risk.
I've been out of the loop for a bit and am just hearing about this. Am a lil bit shaken up by it too. With so many obviously knowledgeable people posting what they're posting. Am more than a tad bit worried here. Leaving not just Debian ... but gnu/Linux period ? WHY DIDN'T I GET THE FRIGGIN MEMO !?!?!

Looks like I can clear my dance card. I'll be researching systemd for the next dozen hours now. More thoughts on this though. Peeps are really going to abandon Debian this soon, because of this ? If it's being deployed then they're doing it for a reason and no matter what I'm going to give them a chance to sort it out. Sometimes Debian, like so many others get their hand forced into something. To maintain compatibility or add TONS of other reasons.

Even when there are bumps in the road with emerging tech. Doesn't necessarily mean xyz distro devs will deploy it poorly. No one, not even the heavy hitters giving systemd a BIG thumbs down in this thread can convince me that Debian central is going to stand-by picking their noses and watch 20yrs flushed down the toilet.

Do Debian devs make mistakes ? Sure they do, they're human like the rest of us. ie: /tmp mounted as tmpfs default. Jumped on the this is a horrible idea bandwagon early on. Even though it only took me a lil while to figure out how to put /tmp back the way I wanted it. Debian tried it ... soon realized it was a mistake, said screw this and got rid of it.

Not to mention the truckloads of independent nix distro's. If this is really a sky falling kind of thing. There's NO WAY IN HELL they'll adopt it. Nor to say anything about the 5,000 truckloads of super skilled nixers around. Again ... if it's an all is lost scenario, they'll fork something. Which imo, many of the Debian bigwigs themselves would splinter off along with them.

My money is this bump will get ironed out too. Yeah I hear people w production systems grinding their teeth and wanting to reach thru the internet and rip my hair out. To those people I say ... a) Peace wo/man, it's just an opinion ... sheesh, b) Keep my hair shaved military style so you'll have a hella time getting hold of it. ;)

c)slapt-get anybody ? Hell could even alias em so folks don't even have to bother using diff apt cmds. Devuan ? Sounds like a gay ( errrr ... person who chooses an alternative life-style) from France. Ah crap, I'm probably gonna catch hell for that one. Oh well ... I don't have anything against same-sex preferencers or France, kay.

Messing round, I trust Debian HQ, ya gotta trust somebody. In ending fellow nixers .. I have to ask again, Why didn't I get the damn memo. Although nobody here works for me and folks are probably thinking why doesn't he stfu?, YOU'RE ALL FIRED anyway!

Sighs ... nah for real, when things like this are said, by people like these saying them. I have to take it very seriously. Thanks for posting this ( and the comments), I got some catching up to do.

Hey OP, what gives, you should add an I'm retarded and just now hearing about this category people can vote for ?! That's how I'm casting my vote.
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *

twoflowers

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#40 Post by twoflowers »

Hey OP, what gives, you should add an I'm retarded and just now hearing about this category people can vote for ?! That's how I'm casting my vote.
LOL ... I'd say you stay on the "not decided yet" category and change your vote later till you've dug into the matter a bit deeper, e.g. take a look at http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 19#p563644

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golinux
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#41 Post by golinux »

My favorite systemd rant. About says it all. You snooze, you lose.
May the FORK be with you!

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#42 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

golinux wrote:My favorite systemd rant. About says it all. You snooze, you lose.
It's already out of date -- a `dist-upgrade` to jessie now creates GRUB menu entries for SysVinit: systemd is not being "forced" on Debian users at all...
deadbang

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golinux
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#43 Post by golinux »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
golinux wrote:My favorite systemd rant. About says it all. You snooze, you lose.
It's already out of date -- a `dist-upgrade` to jessie now creates GRUB menu entries for SysVinit: systemd is not being "forced" on Debian users at all...
Ah, our (not so much) favorite systemd apologist. IT'S ABOUT MORE THAN THE CHOICE OF INIT.
May the FORK be with you!

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#44 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

There's no need to shout.

If you have any evidence for your ridiculous "trojan" theory, please present it now -- I would very much like to see it.

I apologise for nothing -- yes, I like systemd but I am no technical expert and can make no further comment than that.

I do, however, support the right of Debian users to control their system -- that's why I put that link in my sig.
deadbang

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golinux
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#45 Post by golinux »

(Head_on_a_Stick added to my ignore list. Bye-bye . . .)
May the FORK be with you!

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#46 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

I guess that means he has no evidence then...

:D
deadbang

schnuller
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#47 Post by schnuller »

The debian project can do whatever they want, the faith in them ist lost and it's reputation too. It will take more than just a bit to gain it back.
It is sufficient to give the masses a warm feeling, though.
Looking at todays users of Debian i can't say i care much if i got faith in Debian or not, i won't use it anymore this way or the other.

(And offering sysv doesn't help much, if most apps depend on systemd).

spacex
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#48 Post by spacex »

I will go nowhere. The benefits are far greater than any cons, which are few and far between, and for the most part just a matter of misplaced principles and a conservative resistance to change. Also considering how easy it is to change the default init-system, it really shouldn't be a dealbreaker to anyone.

Nobody needs to apologize for any views on this matter. Where all agrees, nobody thinks. The very fact that we all look at this differently is a healthy sign, and the good thing with Linux is that if we don't like something, we fix it ourselves, and we are only limited by our own imagination, and of course, our level of skills. The people who worry the most about systemd are clearly skilled enough to make another choice for themselves.

spacex
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#49 Post by spacex »

schnuller wrote:The debian project can do whatever they want, the faith in them ist lost and it's reputation too. It will take more than just a bit to gain it back.
It is sufficient to give the masses a warm feeling, though.
Looking at todays users of Debian i can't say i care much if i got faith in Debian or not, i won't use it anymore this way or the other.

(And offering sysv doesn't help much, if most apps depend on systemd).
Yes, but that's your perogative, isn't it? If we don't like something, we either make our own, or find something we like better. Nothing wrong with that.

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#50 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

schnuller wrote:(And offering sysv doesn't help much, if most apps depend on systemd).
I respect your opinion (although you probably don't respect mine) -- what is the problem with having systemd libraries on the system if it's not running as PID1?
deadbang

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