Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

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Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Flemur » 2015-01-29 00:11

Debian jessie 7.8 with sysvinit and systemd installed.

Conclusion: same boot time to within wrist-watch accuracy (18sec), systemd used 3M more mem.

Memory measured with ps_mem.py (called 'mem'); I forgot to do "free -m"...

With systemd:
Code: Select all
Boot time = 18sec (grub prompt to visible desktop)
$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 4.599s (kernel) + 6.528s (userspace) = 11.127s
(note the difference between 11s reported and 18s real boot time)
# mem
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used   Program
...snip...
  1.3 MiB +   1.9 MiB =   3.2 MiB   systemd (2)
  3.5 MiB +   1.5 MiB =   5.0 MiB   bash (3)
  3.1 MiB +   2.1 MiB =   5.2 MiB   fluxbox
  7.3 MiB +  49.0 KiB =   7.3 MiB   dhclient
 11.3 MiB +   3.8 MiB =  15.1 MiB   lxterminal
 54.1 MiB + 821.0 KiB =  54.9 MiB   Xorg
---------------------------------
                        112.9 MiB
#


with sysvinit
Code: Select all
Boot time 18 sec.  (grub prompt to visible desktop)
# mem
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used   Program
...snip...
  1.2 MiB +   1.7 MiB =   2.9 MiB   polkitd
  3.6 MiB +   1.5 MiB =   5.0 MiB   bash (3)
  3.2 MiB +   2.1 MiB =   5.3 MiB   fluxbox
  7.3 MiB +  48.0 KiB =   7.4 MiB   dhclient
 11.5 MiB +   3.7 MiB =  15.3 MiB   lxterminal
 54.4 MiB + 836.0 KiB =  55.2 MiB   Xorg
---------------------------------   
                        109.3 MiB
#


Xorg could be made 20-30M smaller by using nouveau drivers rather than nvidia.
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby mean_dean » 2015-01-29 00:55

for minimal systems I have never seen that systemd improved boot time

for minimal installs systemd would just complicate various things in my opinon
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Randicus » 2015-01-29 01:29

Flemur wrote:Debian jessie 7.8 with sysvinit and systemd installed.
I thought Debian 7 is Wheezy and Jessie is what will become Debian 8.
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby mean_dean » 2015-01-29 01:39

at least he didnt call it jessie jackalope or whatever the j release of buntu was...
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-29 07:03

Please post the output of:
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze critical-chain

Also, can you provide a break down of the timing of the boot components under SysVinit plz.
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Flemur » 2015-01-29 14:40

Randicus:
I thought Debian 7 is Wheezy and Jessie is what will become Debian 8.


I installed 7.8 stable then changed repositories to testing. I don't know "what it will become", just what it is.
See below about the names.

mean_dean » 2015-01-28 18:39
at least he didnt call it jessie jackalope or whatever the j release of buntu was...


Giving stupid names to software distributions is lame and pointless: that's why you care.

Code: Select all
$ systemd-analyze critical-chain
The time after the unit is active or started is printed after the "@" character.
The time the unit takes to start is printed after the "+" character.

graphical.target @6.501s
└─multi-user.target @6.501s
  └─virtualbox.service @5.972s +528ms
    └─basic.target @5.963s
      └─paths.target @5.961s
        └─acpid.path @5.961s
          └─sysinit.target @5.954s
            └─nfs-common.service @5.640s +313ms
              └─rpcbind.target @5.639s
                └─rpcbind.service @5.379s +259ms
                  └─network-online.target @5.378s
                    └─network.target @5.377s
                      └─ifup@eth0.service @5.377s
                        └─networking.service @4.015s +1.361s
                          └─local-fs.target @4.012s
                            └─run-rpc_pipefs.mount @5.904s
                              └─local-fs-pre.target @3.475s
                                └─systemd-remount-fs.service @3.436s +36ms
                                  └─keyboard-setup.service @1.397s +2.038s
                                    └─systemd-udevd.service @1.301s +93ms
                                      └─systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service @870ms +429ms
                                        └─kmod-static-nodes.service @799ms +69ms
                                          └─system.slice @789ms
                                            └─-.slice @785ms
$
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-29 14:53

Flemur wrote:
Code: Select all
(note the difference between 11s reported and 18s real boot time)

This difference will be the time taken for the actual desktop to load.

Interesting info, thank you!
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Flemur » 2015-01-29 15:44

Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-29 07:53
Interesting info, thank you!


Numbers are good!

This difference will be the time taken for the actual desktop to load.

I just mentioned that since I've seen people use systemd-analyze time as their "boot time".
I'm doing autologin/startx without a display/login manager, so that 6-7 or so seconds difference seems like a lot since fluxbox starts so fast ... ?

Here's a bootchart (izzat what you wanted? I'm more used to systemd from Arch, tho not anything like an expert at any of 'em)
Nothing at all has been optimized beyond what the Deb installer might do.

Image
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-01-29 16:00

Flemur wrote:I'm doing autologin/startx without a display/login manager, so that 6-7 or so seconds difference seems like a lot since fluxbox starts so fast ... ?

Seems about right to me -- I have a PekWM/lxpanel desktop that takes about that time to start once logged in (no autostart).

Have you tried disabling the autostart so you can get an idea of the time it takes to start the desktop?

Thanks for the graphs -- it's that kind of functionality that's missing from SysVinit, rather than any deficiencies in boot time.

I'll try my Debian sid system later with SysVinit & a stopwatch to see if it can match the ~4 second startup time under systemd...

Debian sid, systemd:
Code: Select all
Startup finished in 2.314s (kernel) + 1.875s (userspace) = 4.190s

On the stopwatch from gummiboot menu to GNOME desktop (with autostart): ~8 seconds.

Somewhat embarrassingly, SysVinit won't boot to the display manager and I can't disable the display manager under systemd... :oops:
Under SysVinit, to the (console) log in is ~5.4 seconds so it seems very slightly slower, but I can't be absolutely sure.
Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick on 2015-01-29 17:31, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby thenewguy » 2015-01-29 16:04

DistroWatch did a side-by side test of Debian Testing where boot times between SysV and systemd were compared. The boot times were identical.
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20141027#qa

Seems weird when projects like openSUSE and Fedora claimed they switched init technology in large part because of the difference in boot times. Looking over the systemd website, the claims about systemd being faster seem to have been removed. I think everyone is now aware (or at least they should be) systemd is not faster.
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Flemur » 2015-01-29 18:32

Head_on_a_Stick : Have you tried disabling the autostart so you can get an idea of the time it takes to start the desktop?

A little less than 3 seconds for startx -> desktop.

thenewguy: I think everyone is now aware (or at least they should be) systemd is not faster.

I'd seen that claim a lot, hence this thread. Upstart's about the same, too.

I like systemd's syntax and tools, and don't know enough to care about the "taking over the system" aspect, and very rarely mess with any of them anyway; rather than shiny new boot managers I'd prefer a shiny new ALSA.
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby NkfzGx3ok » 2015-01-29 21:41

thenewguy wrote:Seems weird when projects like openSUSE and Fedora claimed they switched init technology in large part because of the difference in boot times.

Have any official links to any of that? I've been around systemd and the discussion in Fedora and SUSE since 2010 and the speed has always been a welcome side effect and never a tier 1 reason.

thenewguy wrote:Looking over the systemd website, the claims about systemd being faster seem to have been removed. I think everyone is now aware (or at least they should be) systemd is not faster.

Again, citation, please? You can use archive services to go back and view the pages and get links. AFIAK in the past 5 years systemd has never been marketed it's developers or distros devs because of speed (again, just a nice side effect), that is an end user argument flung around the net because visually that is the only noticeable difference.


Oh, and to be on topic, one of our debian test servers:
Code: Select all
# Startup finished in 1.489s (kernel) + 2.015s (initrd) + 1.838s (userspace) = 5.342s
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Flemur » 2015-01-31 20:23

https://news.opensuse.org/2011/12/22/sy ... suse-12-1/
"systemd –[sic] boot faster and cleaner with openSUSE 12.1"
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby wizard10000 » 2015-01-31 22:11

thenewguy wrote:...Seems weird when projects like openSUSE and Fedora claimed they switched init technology in large part because of the difference in boot times. Looking over the systemd website, the claims about systemd being faster seem to have been removed. I think everyone is now aware (or at least they should be) systemd is not faster.


On a server I really wouldn't care about a few seconds of boot time and to be honest I don't care much about it on my laptop either. If someone is bouncing a server often enough for a couple seconds boot time to even factor into an init system either their server's broken or they're a really poor sysadmin :)

Same with my personal machine, which only gets rebooted during kernel upgrades for the most part.
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Re: Boot time/memory comparison: sysvinit vs systemd

Postby edbarx » 2015-02-02 07:27

Boot times under a few minutes do not count as a problem for anyone who does not boot his computer often enough. At least, this is how I see it. Boot times became a nuisance, when the giant of operating systems, that is, Microsoft Windows, started to make the life of computer users miserable when boot times took several minutes.

For a few seconds more of boot time to use my computer, I see no reason to use a potentially broken and immature OS-initialisation system. It is far better for me to write my own as the source for OS-initialisation systems is open and easy to access.

However, right now, I am having other more serious problems, regarding my health, and regarding other more urgent issues.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
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