Yes, Etch/ Sid says 4.0. That was the joke... my command writes you a new /etc/debian_versioncraigevil wrote:craig@craigevil:~$ cat /etc/debian_versionLavene wrote:I'm a genius!! I have the perfect solution!!Problem solved!Code: Select all
# echo "4.0 Stable" > /etc/debian_version
Tina
4.0
Mine has said 4.0 for a couple of months now. But then again I run Sid.
Yeah, Etch says 4.0 and my Sarge's say 3.1 on them.Lavene wrote:Yes, Etch/ Sid says 4.0. That was the joke... my command writes you a new /etc/debian_version
Except there are still around 100 release-critical bugs which are slowing down the speed. But really, what makes Debian so great is that the developers are so persistent at keeping it completely stable even if it means making us wait a few extra months.hcgtv wrote:Yeah, Etch says 4.0 and my Sarge's say 3.1 on them.Lavene wrote:Yes, Etch/ Sid says 4.0. That was the joke... my command writes you a new /etc/debian_version
Etch appears stable to me at this point, no major problems to report in the desktop apps I run nor in any of the daemons. I second the echo command from Tina, there we're officially at Stable
I can live with a few bugs....Pobega wrote: Except there are still around 100 release-critical bugs
Of course you can, but I'd personally rather see the number of rc bugs down to around 50 before they even consider releasing it. I mean, if they make it stable and a few servers break down due to one of the RC bugs it will be on the fault of impatience.DeanLinkous wrote:I can live with a few bugs....Pobega wrote: Except there are still around 100 release-critical bugs
http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/debian/all.html
Well the OP disappeared and the topic has changed, things happen. Hell, look at the mailing list; A topic called "Booting Debian Testing Fails" turned from tech support to writing documentation for new users.thamarok wrote:The topic title is about Debian vs OpenSUSE and you guys (and Tina) are talking about Debian Etch Installer RC bugs.. oh my,... (I'm trying my best to be the following m*******r [you know what I mean Tina?])
Agreed! I didn't mention release only usage.Pobega wrote: Of course you can, but I'd personally rather see the number of rc bugs down to around 50 before they even consider releasing it. I mean, if they make it stable and a few servers break down due to one of the RC bugs it will be on the fault of impatience.
Sure we all want to see Lenny and have some new packages in testing (I know I do), but I wouldn't want to compromise the security or stability of servers just to please the impatient people who could as well just be using Sid/Unstable.
I certainly would not want them to release it with 100 RC bugs but I certainly do not want that to stop people from using it either since that is 100 bugs out of 20000 packages and a lot of them are trivial at best, and a lot in packages I have never even heard of much less plan to install. 
Just to be clear I said "YAST like". Is it perfect? Of course not. But the convenience of a point-and-click package management tool is handy at times. 3 hours to add a repository? Don't think so. I'll give you the same advice that I'm getting from you Debian veterans regarding your tools, you have to know how to use it. And what "failure to handle dependencies"? I've been using SuSe since it was first available and haven't encountered any SuSe originated dependency problems in either rpm or YAST. They and 3rd parties have occasionally botched packaging, but that can happen with any distro.frenchninja wrote:My opinion is the complete opposite. I find YAST to be enough of a reason for anyone to get off the suse bandwagon. Unless, of course, you have 3 hours spare to watch it add one repository to your system. Or, you know, you could just do it in about 3 seconds in Synaptic.. each to their own I suppose.What I don't understand is why there isn't a YAST like equivalent in Debian. In fact someone could have adapted the YAST source to Debian's tools since it's not license restricted. I find tools like "aptitude" to be completely useless.
Or if you don't mind the time waiting for YAST to work, you can devote your time to trying to fix its failure to handle dependencies, as opposed to the way aptitude does..
Thanks, you and Dean have some very good practical advice which I will follow.Grifter wrote:Oi, what a flamebaitHaber_Nir wrote:ok i see that debian 4 still not out yet.
debian 3.1 was release in 6/6/2005!!!!!
and from than until now opensuse was going forward.
now i trying to ask myself which things debian will offers me and convince me to move to debian from opensuse 10.2 because to tell the truth i dont see a single reason to move to debian.
and don't forget opensuse 10.3 is on the way
soo please convince me.
Well first of all, I guess the difference between debian and (many) other distros are version numbers; whenever a new version comes out they reinstall the entire OS, but with debian you don't bloody bother because you just run a command and then you're up to date, infact people who go by version numbers for debian totally miss out
Just stay on testing and update your packages when a new version comes out of a particular software
THAT is the difference, instead of worrying about when debian 2, debian 3, debian 4 comes out, and preparing to back up data to reinstall, debian people just chill - because when we upgrade, or dist-upgrade, we're as current as can be without any hassle
I don't see where you get "3 hours to add a repository". Edit /etc/apt/sources.list with vi, then run apt-get update and you're basically set.nbi wrote:Just to be clear I said "YAST like". Is it perfect? Of course not. But the convenience of a point-and-click package management tool is handy at times. 3 hours to add a repository? Don't think so. I'll give you the same advice that I'm getting from you Debian veterans regarding your tools, you have to know how to use it. And what "failure to handle dependencies"? I've been using SuSe since it was first available and haven't encountered any SuSe originated dependency problems in either rpm or YAST. They and 3rd parties have occasionally botched packaging, but that can happen with any distro.frenchninja wrote:My opinion is the complete opposite. I find YAST to be enough of a reason for anyone to get off the suse bandwagon. Unless, of course, you have 3 hours spare to watch it add one repository to your system. Or, you know, you could just do it in about 3 seconds in Synaptic.. each to their own I suppose.What I don't understand is why there isn't a YAST like equivalent in Debian. In fact someone could have adapted the YAST source to Debian's tools since it's not license restricted. I find tools like "aptitude" to be completely useless.
Or if you don't mind the time waiting for YAST to work, you can devote your time to trying to fix its failure to handle dependencies, as opposed to the way aptitude does..
Yes, despite the package management learning curve and annoyances Debian is rapidly growing on me in a big way. With each session I discover things I really like. Scripts tend to be very clean and straightforward unlike their convoluted counterparts in some other distros.craigevil wrote:craig@craigevil:~$ cat /etc/debian_versionLavene wrote:I'm a genius!! I have the perfect solution!!Problem solved!Code: Select all
# echo "4.0 Stable" > /etc/debian_version
Tina
4.0
Mine has said 4.0 for a couple of months now. But then again I run Sid.
Not having GUI tools to configure everything is IMHO actually better. I started off using Debian a little over two years ago knowing absolutely nothing about Linux. Granted I was in way over my head for the first few days, but I READ the Debian docs, and after a couple of weeks I was able to get everything just the way I wanted it.
Installing and getting Etch up and running with all the extra packages like Java, Flash and multimedia only took me 2hrs a couple of weeks ago. If I had to rely on GUI tools I probably wouldn't have been able to manage that. Two years now running the same install kept updated by a simple apt-get dist-upgrade once a week.
SUSE is nice, but as the saying goes when your ready to learn Linux you either run Debian or Slackware. But if all you want is a linux desktop that works SuSE and Ubuntu for that matter are fine. Use what works for you.
Having tried most of the big linux names other than Gentoo and Slackware, including over 20 livecd distros Debian is the one I choose to stick with. It may take a little more work than some of the others but it is well worth it.
What do you mean by "desktop release"? I installed "testing" from only the first DVD iso and the installer certainly didn't install 20000 packages. In fact I actually like what it did despite not liking the fact that I was not asked what to install. The default choices were all very reasonable and resulted in a notebook install that has all the essentials, but is not bloated in any way.DeanLinkous wrote:Agreed! I didn't mention release only usage.Pobega wrote: Of course you can, but I'd personally rather see the number of rc bugs down to around 50 before they even consider releasing it. I mean, if they make it stable and a few servers break down due to one of the RC bugs it will be on the fault of impatience.
Sure we all want to see Lenny and have some new packages in testing (I know I do), but I wouldn't want to compromise the security or stability of servers just to please the impatient people who could as well just be using Sid/Unstable.
Maybe Debian should consider a desktop release? Or maybe a top 5000 packages concentration?
I am rambling now....
Installer bugs, release dates, and so forth would be good information for anyone asking about opensuse vs debian so I consider it on topic - with such a broad topic most anything at least slightly related would be on topic IMO.
I think for you, opensuse is the answer, stay with opensuse!Haber_Nir wrote:ok i see that debian 4 still not out yet.
debian 3.1 was release in 6/6/2005!!!!!
and from than until now opensuse was going forward.
now i trying to ask myself which things debian will offers me and convince me to move to debian from opensuse 10.2 because to tell the truth i dont see a single reason to move to debian.
and don't forget opensuse 10.3 is on the way
soo please convince me.
Bah release already Sid is stagnant and there are lots of new packages sitting in experimental waiting to make Sid more exciting.
Sure we all want to see Lenny and have some new packages in testing (I know I do), but I wouldn't want to compromise the security or stability of servers just to please the impatient people who could as well just be using Sid/Unstable.
I know there has been some attempts to make such tools but they seem to have died due to lack of interest. Personally I believe it's due to the fact that most often Debian is an 'install once, upgrade forever' distro so you basically set up your system once and rarely have to touch it again except for the occasional installation of new software. And for that, if you don't like the CLI, you have tools like Synaptic or Kpackage.nbi wrote:What I don't understand is why there isn't a YAST like equivalent in Debian. In fact someone could have adapted the YAST source to Debian's tools since it's not license restricted. I find tools like "aptitude" to be completely useless.
This was my experience of YAST on OpenSUSE 10.2. Slow and not confidence inspiring. With APT I just install away with stuff I'll try out and probably uninstall ten minutes later. It's quick and easy and I know it will work, so I just feel free to go ahead and do it. On OpenSUSE it felt more like installing something required more thought and caution - and was way slower and hence less convenient, so more often I wouldn't bother with stuff I didn't need. That's without mentioning the sheer size of Debian's repositories....frenchninja wrote:My opinion is the complete opposite. I find YAST to be enough of a reason for anyone to get off the suse bandwagon. Unless, of course, you have 3 hours spare to watch it add one repository to your system. Or, you know, you could just do it in about 3 seconds in Synaptic.. each to their own I suppose.
Or if you don't mind the time waiting for YAST to work, you can devote your time to trying to fix its failure to handle dependencies, as opposed to the way aptitude does..
