New Debian user

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New Debian user

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-02-10 16:31

Hello all,
I am pretty new to Debian :
Release 7.8 (wheezy) 32-bit
Kernel Linux 3.2.0-4-686-pae
GNOME 3.4.2
is what I installed , so far I am really happy with it. In the past I was using linux mint, and xubuntu ( a little) , ,.. So anyway I had heard of Debian, and finally decided to give it a try.
I have seen some stuff about "system D", not sure what to think about that, I guess the version of wheezy I am using still is not using "systemD" ? or is it ?
At first I was kind of "intimidated" by Debian, when I discovered I needed to find and install some firmware/drivers, for the wireless , (wlan and wifi), but that turned out not to be so bad.
I guess this is sort of a introduction, I also am enjoying this forum, finding a lot of useful info, and some interesting members. I don't know a lot about programming, but enjoy learning, it is pretty much a hobby for me, Since it seems like Debian wheezy is working so well, and it appears quite stable, I don't expect I am going to have much problems, etc.
If ever there is anything I can do to help, here on the forum, or with Debian, IE: test something,etc,.. I am willing and usually available, I may very well have more time available, to pursue my "hobby', or hobbies, I am getting ready to retire, but anyway , that is something else,..
ok well, for now that is about it, just kind of wanted to introduce myself,..
from Garry
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2015-02-12 21:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-02-10 19:15

Hello Garry, welcome to Debian!

Have no fear, your wheezy system is not running systemd and even if you decide to change your system to track jessie or sid you will get some GRUB menu options to boot up with good 'ol SysVinit ;)

I am confident you will find your Debian Stable system to be much more reliable than Ubuntu -- the *buntu's are essentially patched Debian Unstable systems.

See you in the forums!
:)
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Re: New Debian user

Postby schnuller » 2015-02-10 23:37

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Have no fear, your wheezy system is not running systemd and even if you decide to change your system to track jessie or sid you will get some GRUB menu options to boot up with good 'ol SysVinit ;)


Doesn't gnome depend on systemd running as the init system?


So anyway I had heard of Debian, and finally decided to give it a try.
I have seen some stuff about "system D", not sure what to think about that,

To answer that question you must have a clear answer to the question:
What do i want from an operating system?

Back in the days Debian was about having control over your system, being able to really understand it, to be the best OS for the user - not company-driven decisions, last but not least: being free (as in freedom). An arbitrary list of what it was about.
If you look for such, then Debian isn't the right distro anymore.

My guess it that the whole systemd-mess shouldn't bother you. It is a tale from the past of Linux for people of the past. Today's people have different interests and values, it seems.

mainly the quote by M. Krafft:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21372
If you look for that: move along. Debian isn't like that anymore.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby JLloyd13 » 2015-02-11 00:28

@OP ^

The above is a matter of personal opinion. The truth lies somewhere in between.

Systemd has various theoretical benefits. It also completely ignores Unix philosophy (portability above efficiency, each small program does one thing good, etc).

As an end desktop user and begininer you almost certainly will not notice. It doesn't really impact you in that way. Its a more under the hood thing. I wouldn't worry about it until you find your footing in Linux. Once you do, then you can make an informed decision. As mentioned, Debian can be easily switched back. It may affect a few packages but Debian IS still about giving you choice in my opinion.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-02-11 01:14

To answer that question you must have a clear answer to the question:
What do i want from an operating system?

Well, and I also did read the thread"What is a "Real" Debian User." It has some good points, not trying to be a "smart aleck", but after all said and done, I know I am real , (at least I think I am), so there fore I am, and now I am using Debian, so regardless of the other things, that makes me a "real debian user".
Anyway, the most important thing for me is that the OS is stable, but also, 2nd is that I can modify it if I so desire, most of what I need, can actually be done just with DOS, but it is nice to have "multi" tasking, and some other things, that are available in more modern systems, Windows, I never did like , even when it first came out, ...actually I know very little about windows, have never used it much, back in the dos days, when I was online, it was all UNIX, so by necessity I started learning some basics, and have always been more comfortable with UNIX, or UNIX like environment, in fact that is pretty much how I stumbled onto linux, I did not like windows, but at the same time, as the internet began getting more technically advanced. etc. I could see I needed some thing more the just DOS, I searched for a "portable" or small version of Unix, and it was suggested to me to try LINUX, ,..the friend that suggested linux, similar suggested starting with mint, or ubuntu, which I did,..and they are fine, too, from what I have read, I suspect I would not like, the "systemD", but at the same time, I might not even notice the difference, maybe I would.
All I have is older computers, and if and when I look for a "new" one, I still prefer looking for a used one, if need be I can replace the HD, and or a few parts to get it running, if it is running, but has windows, the first thing I do is get rid of the mal-ware, then take it from there. The fact that linux is "free", open source, it is not that I look for something for free, "free meal" so to speak, but the fact that it is a better , more reliable,more secure, and security, is another thing very important to me, but also having access to the kernels,and source code, is essential in making any modifications, or repairs if needed or desired.
I never even finished high school, don't really have much education, all of what I have learned is by self study, reading, research,etc. , so yea, on that , at times, I get into something that is more advanced, and beyond my understanding or ability, and occasionally need to ask for detailed instruction, or perhaps a "ready made script",..etc. My first experiences with open source software were back in the late 1980's, the authors , were always happy to have some one willing to try it, and test it, and often included real "basic" forms, or a means to report any bugs, etc. Ok well I think I am kind of "rambling", so for now that is about it.


,
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Re: New Debian user

Postby Bulkley » 2015-02-11 01:32

Welcome to Debian! A couple of suggestions. Head_on_a_Stick (above) has a link on his signature line about how not to break your system. Do take a look. The Web is full of bad advice that assume that Debian is a universal word like chocolate and can be mixed with anything. Just because an OS is derived from Debian doesn't mean that it is interchangeable and it usually isn't.

Remember that almost any problem you run into somebody else has already posted an answer somewhere. It is not always easy to find but give it a try. This forum has a ton of answers. The WWW has many more. Plug an error code into your favourite search engine and, more often than not, your solution will pop up.

Stick with Wheezy (Stable) at least until you are comfortable with Debian. The shiny new stuff usually not that shiny and new anyway; it just has a newer release number.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby schnuller » 2015-02-11 03:08

I never even finished high school, don't really have much education, all of what I have learned is by self study, reading, research,etc.

That will help you a lot. Higher education seems to mainly stand in the way ... :-)

Like JLoyd pointed out it really is a matter of taste, of values, etc. I tried to point it out myself that that is the main question when it comes to systemd, perhaps i failed.
Like you pointed out: You probably won't even notice that you are running systemd instead of another init, at least not right now.
(I use openrc instead of sysv for half a year now, and as of now i didn't notice. Same for systemd, i didn't notice i was running it).

I am still not sure if you can avoid systemd if you want to use gnome (on Debian). I wouldn't call that "lack of choice", just stating it.

To make a long story short: You are fine, this way or the other.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-02-12 19:50

I am still not sure if you can avoid systemd if you want to use gnome (on Debian). I wouldn't call that "lack of choice", just stating it.

No, I wouldn't call it "lack of choice" either, it is more like a "condition", so if one wants to use gnome, they need to also use systemd,
Welcome to Debian! A couple of suggestions. Head_on_a_Stick (above) has a link on his signature line about how not to break your system.
Yes I looked at that, it is good advice, I kind of wished I had seen it, and read it carefully, before I did what I did to solve the problem with the wifi/and wlan, What I had done, was , since it worked on my xubutnu installation (on a seperate partition), I compared the results of the
Code: Select all
 lsusb
with the results on the Debian, to see what it was that the xubuntu had that the debian didn't, it was the broadcan firmware/driver,..so that is what I installed to the debian, it works fine though, but I noticed he does not recommend "mixing", or using what is intended for another distro, ..I may have to do it over again , if and when the kernel gets updated. Oh well, learn from my mistakes.
I am kind of a "If it is not broken, don't try to fix it" person, if everything is working good, I leave it alone, in the past, but this was with xubunto, I learned a lesson, the hard way, everything was fine, but I still accepted and allowed all the updates to be installed,...it "broke" my system, would not boot after the updates,..I had back ups of everything important to me, so the easy "fix" was just to do a new install.
I now have all the software packages I want installed, and working good, I don't use much, some drawing, and animation programs, a server, (NGNIX) on that, it is for a "localhost" server, all though one day I may put it online, ...but that is a long ways off, I think, and I need to learn more about that too first.
Anyway so far everything runs smoothly, I am glad I switched over to Debian "wheezy", I may try to find another computer, or create a partition , to try jessie, or a version with systemd, just to see the difference and experiment a little. I would rather do that on a entirely different computer, then a partition on the same computer that I use for my personal buisness,etc,.
guess for now that is about it.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby dariusdor » 2015-02-12 20:32

schnuller wrote:Doesn't gnome depend on systemd running as the init system?


Gnome 3 runs in BSD, which has no systemd.

@GarryRicketson: Welcome to Debian. You will find it is a very stable OS with a huge package library.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby keithpeter » 2015-02-12 21:10

GarryRicketson wrote:... I could see I needed some thing more the just DOS, I searched for a "portable" or small version of Unix, and it was suggested to me to try LINUX,

Welcome to Debian forums. As you can see we are an unruly bunch with plenty of opinions :twisted:

I think that Bulkley's advice rings true: stick with stable (i.e. your present Wheezy) install for a bit with its default Gnome desktop. Once you find your feet, you can configure Debian to be small (a flea powered ARM web server such as the Sheevaplug), huge (a 4096 processor cluster with half a terabyte of RAM analysing petabytes of data) or anything in between. And you can log into different 'desktop sessions' that have quite different setups as the mood takes you.

The Debian Wiki would make good reading. When you want to go a bit deeper, dip into the Debian Administrator's Handbook (http://debian-handbook.info/get/now). I found this fascinating and useful.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-02-12 21:59


Gnome 3 runs in BSD, which has no systemd.
I am glad to see that clarified, I was kind of wondering, if "wheezy" still is not using systemd, but is using gnome, how it could be , that one needs to have systemd to ruse gnome
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Re: New Debian user

Postby JLloyd13 » 2015-02-13 03:23

dariusdor wrote:
schnuller wrote:Doesn't gnome depend on systemd running as the init system?


Gnome 3 runs in BSD, which has no systemd.

@GarryRicketson: Welcome to Debian. You will find it is a very stable OS with a huge package library.


I may be wrong so don't hold me to this, but where as the newer versions rely on systemd the older versions (such as that in Wheezy) actually caused BSD issues by relying on udev, which is why porting took so long (THREE YEARS, to port Gnome 3 to FreeBSD)

BUT, that's just something I think I remember reading, so full disclaimer I could be wrong
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Re: New Debian user

Postby schnuller » 2015-02-13 05:35

dariusdor wrote:
schnuller wrote:Doesn't gnome depend on systemd running as the init system?


Gnome 3 runs in BSD, which has no systemd.

.

Of course it runs without systemd. The question is if you can run gnome without systemd running as PID 1 when using Debian, not if other operating systems or distros offer that.
It sure depends on systemd being installed, of course.
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Re: New Debian user

Postby debianized » 2015-02-13 05:40

GarryRicketson wrote:Hello all,
I am pretty new to Debian....In the past I was using linux mint, and xubuntu


You definitely stepped up in the world.
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