The English teacher in me would have loved to see this editorial laden with references for further reading, but obviously I can do the Googling myself. 10/10 post.
Up next: "Deconstructing systemd: a collection of analyses" by j_derrida_420
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
n_hologram wrote:The English teacher in me would have loved to see this editorial laden with references for further reading..."
golinux wrote:FYI, you are getting some well-deserved love on the Devuan mail list.![]()
dasein wrote:
As noted above, the only reason “systemd is a bad idea” wasn't the outcome of the GR vote is because the DPL offered a “political cover” amendment that allowed “This conversation is superfluous” to be the correct answer. Which it isn't.
mardybear wrote:“The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change -”. ― Heraclitus
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The GR was not a mandate for systemd
I have no idea where Debian's systemd fanbois get the idea that a victory lap is appropriate.
The results of the GR vote were diluted and obfuscated by two non-resolution outcomes. Of the three technologically-relevant resolutions to the GR, one was unequivocally pro-systemd, the other two were contra-systemd, differing primarily in phrasing (essentially the difference between “must not” and “should not”).
(Aside: I'm a “must not” guy at heart, but I grudgingly admit that those who contend that an absolute prohibition might prove unnecessarily inflexible or self-limiting might have a valid point. Maybe. But I don't have to like doing it.)
But here's the thing, and there is just no getting around it. Once you eliminate the ass-covering amendment offered by Nussbaum, “systemd is a bad idea, the only real question is how bad” didn't place third.
It placed first. By a substantial margin.
Conversely, “systemd is a good idea” didn't place first.
It placed last.
If this surprises you, even a little, then by all means, go look it up. And for the love of whatever you hold Sacred, refrain from uttering a single word of GR-related drivel until you do..
Speaking of the GR...
The GR was too necessary
As noted above, the only reason “systemd is a bad idea” wasn't the outcome of the GR vote is because the DPL offered a “political cover” amendment that allowed “This conversation is superfluous” to be the correct answer. Which it isn't.
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Speaking of costs...
Changes cost, and big changes cost big
There's a reason why sysadmins in large organizations are routinely among systemd's biggest detractors.
Downtime is expensive in terms of both time and money. So is re-training. So is rewriting gigabytes of artificially-obsoleted documentation. Add them all up, multiply by hundreds of thousands/millions of installs, factor in the associated opportunity costs, and before you know it, the costs to the global economy associated with systemd deployment reach into the billions (or thousands of millions, if you prefer) of dollars/euros.
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So long, and thanks for all the fish...
friartek wrote:And here I thought they were voting on the question of what init software would be the default.
friartek wrote:I'm sure Redhat would like a big piece of the pie.
friartek wrote:Thanks for you insights.
dasein wrote:One last thing and then I'll shut up, I promise. (I think.) [...]
emariz wrote:The vast majority of Debian's developers are actually packagers. I am not minimising their excellent work, but stating a fact that has been ignored in this conversation.
emariz wrote:While we could get into a long discussion about Red Hat's motives behind the development and implementation of systemd, nowadays, giant sets of tools, like Gnome, depend on systemd, and packagers must decide whether to use these tools and adapt them into their projects, or reject them and create alternatives to supply that functionality.
I am confident that Debian's developers could create brilliant alternatives to all these tools afftected by systemd, but I am not sure that they want to invest their time and effort doing so. They are already very efficient, and very busy, at putting together thousands of pieces from thousands of sources into one successful project, Debian.
dasein wrote:
One last thing and then I'll shut up, I promise. (I think.)
Thanks, and thanks to everyone else who's expressed appreciation. I'm delighted that folks are finding it useful. I very nearly didn't post it.
1of12 wrote:
Hysterical nonsense.
mardybear wrote:you've probably been waiting a long time to get this out!
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