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How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

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weedeater64
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How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#1 Post by weedeater64 »

It is my opinion that Ubuntu has done more harm to FOSS and GNU/Linux than all other offenders combined.
I sometimes wonder if their goal is not to intentionally destroy FOSS 'from within'.

How do most Debian usser feel about Ubuntu?

How do most Debian developers feel about Ubuntu?

Feel free to toss in any thoughts about systemd ruining the best part of *nix too.
You know, do one thing, do it well, stay out of stuff you've got no business in, etc.

chrissywissy
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#2 Post by chrissywissy »

I'll start by saying that Ubuntu got me into using Linux.

After years of putting up with Windows, Ubuntu 11.04 with Unity was a breath of fresh air. I suddenly discovered alternate desktops, and the fact that it was free to try them all out. Going to the various fora, I felt the need to move to Debian, on which Ubuntu is based. Went back and forth through various iterations, and settled on Debian with XFCE on one box and Gnome on the other. When Jessie went stable I accidentally installed Gnome on both boxes rather than XFCE and have decided to stay with it.

I am a Linux user because, after a short time, I've found it easy to install, customise and use. I am not an open source nazi, and will use some closed drivers/software etc. as necessary. The first thing that happens after any installation is adding the 'restricted extras' and/or non-free repos.

I listen to Shuttleworth's critics, and agree that he's opinionated (although these evolve), has an obsession with convergence and seemingly runs his company as a hobby. I'm not sure about the amount Canonical really contribute to the community, but would point to the number of people they've got on board the Linux ship. They've had mainstream manufacturers like HP offering (intermittently) hardware with Ubuntu pre-installed.

Overall, if I was as happy with Unity as other DEs, I'd still be using Ubuntu.

I'll keep away from the systemd issue, because as a desktop end user it has little relevance or interest to me.

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keithpeter
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#3 Post by keithpeter »

weedeater64 wrote:It is my opinion that Ubuntu has done more harm to FOSS and GNU/Linux than all other offenders combined.
I'm not sure who the 'other offenders' are, but I think basically the more people being paid to work on code/software/distributions that are released under the GPL the better. The key is the GPL and/or the BSD licences. The code is available to anyone.

Ubuntu has contributed to 'onboarding' into the world of Linux; for people making Web applications Ubuntu server was at one point the most widely available OS on Amazon and other cloud computing providers; for IT admins in large organisations the Ubuntu desktop provided paid support and client management tools to ease installations of 1000s of desktops; for the individual users Ubuntu did indeed simplify the process of installation and addition of multimedia codecs &c.

Canonical is attempting to become profitable. They are still looking for a market fit. If they can't become profitable then they'll wind down eventually. I personally would like to have that phone that you can dock and it becomes a desktop. Genius.

But I'll use Debian on the 'main' computer.

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#4 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Ubuntu have done a fantastic job fostering a new generation of GNU/Linux users who are completely incapable or unwilling to use the command-line interface and are hooked on the teat of mother GUI.

Furthermore, the users they have introduced seem to have maintained their (unwarranted) sense of entitlement from their Windows days...

Yeah great job Ubuntu, keep it up.

EDIT: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish :evil:
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MALsPa
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#5 Post by MALsPa »

Debian's my #1 distro, but I've been running Ubuntu LTS releases (since Dapper, Ubuntu 6.06) along with Debian Stable (since Etch). Here, those LTS releases have held up almost as well as Stable. Ubuntu's kinda easy to install, of course, but I've always got a good amount of post-install tweaking to do, as with Debian.

I like using Unity about as much as I like using any other environment. The DE/WM, doesn't seem to matter much to me anymore, I go back and forth between several of them.

The other stuff, Canonical and Shuttleworth and all that business, I don't concern myself with any of that. They put out a free operating system that I'm able to use (even if I have to hammer it into shape first, sometimes) to get things done. Good documentation, deep repos, and very few issues once things are installed and set up. I avoid the non-LTS releases, though.

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kc1di
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#6 Post by kc1di »

Ubuntu has played a very important roll in promoting the use of Linux on a world wide scale. I don't always like the way Conical calls the shots, but hey they need to be profitable also. I'm not sure convergence is the way to go. But Ubuntu did a great job of making linux accessable and easy to install. I've been around for awhile and I'll tell you in the early days pre Ubuntu, a Linux install took days to configure not hours or less. Ubuntu made that much easier. I still use it on some machines, but have decided I Like debian stable better. Just my opinion.
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acewiza
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#7 Post by acewiza »

So Jeff, couple ?s for you, since your premise seems a bit presumptuous: Exactly what is it you are suggesting Ubuntu has done or is doing to "harm" FOSS, and what do you suspect is the ultimate goal in their endeavor to "destroy FOSS from within?"
Nobody would ever ask questions If everyone possessed encyclopedic knowledge of the man pages.

Bulkley
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#8 Post by Bulkley »

Since I don't use Ubuntu I don't have much feeling for it however I have noticed that when I run into a problem with Debian and search for solutions it's common for detailed CLI instructions to pop up from Ubuntu users. They aren't all zonked on GUIs.

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stkris
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#9 Post by stkris »

The more choices the better.


I prefer Debian but have installed Ubuntu LTS on my mothers laptop. Works fine - only niggle is me forgetting to sudo all the time.
Two servers running Wheezy and Squeeze, two laptops (T61,G530) running Jessie and Squeeze.

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GarryRicketson
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#10 Post by GarryRicketson »

Ubuntu is ok,

I prefer Debian but have installed Ubuntu LTS on my mothers laptop
It has its place, similar, that is what I installed on my wifes laptop ,for her. She would have problems with debian, I am sure, but just to be sure, I showed her "around" on mine, and I also showed her what XUBUNTU is like, ( I had it on a separate partition), she said she prefered xubuntu,..
I like Debian better, but that is my choice, I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with ubuntu, or against it, we are all free to chooose what OS we want to use.

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Qew
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#11 Post by Qew »

GarryRicketson wrote:It has its place,
This is how I'd answer this topic's question. Years ago, after deciding to move on from Mandrake/Mandriva after some years learning the basics of Linux, I used for six months the duck version of Ubuntu (2006?), which then got me into installing Debian Etch in early 2007. So, I suppose, I owe Ubuntu something for steering me in the right direction. As you said, it has its place, and I won't begrudge them for that.

TonyVanDam
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#12 Post by TonyVanDam »

The (Gnome 2 era) Ubuntu was the first Linux distro that I've ever used and it's also was the distro that help me get off the Microsoft Plantation! :mrgreen: And I had no problem with leaving Ubuntu after learning about other distros like Linux Mint, LMDE, antiX, and Debian.

These days, there is no way I could ever used Ubuntu due to the adware and/or spyware fallout. And don't get me started about my views on the Unity desktop.

tadaensylvermane
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#13 Post by tadaensylvermane »

I consider myself a member of both camps. Currently running Ubuntu on my server / htpc and Kubuntu on my laptop. I prefer straight Debian stable though. The only reason I don't run Debian is lack of packages. In the case of my server, mythtv-backend. In the case of my laptop, handbrake and an easy ppa for makemkv. If it wasn't for those I would only run Debian. Debian is how I started with Linux, and I love it still.

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pylkko
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#14 Post by pylkko »

tadaensylvermane wrote:I consider myself a member of both camps. Currently running Ubuntu on my server / htpc and Kubuntu on my laptop. I prefer straight Debian stable though. The only reason I don't run Debian is lack of packages. In the case of my server, mythtv-backend. In the case of my laptop, handbrake and an easy ppa for makemkv. If it wasn't for those I would only run Debian. Debian is how I started with Linux, and I love it still.
Have you noticed that Handbrake is in the Debian repo (0.9.9 in stable and 0.10 in testing)? And whatever makemkv does proabably can be done with some tool from Deb multimedia...

tadaensylvermane
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#15 Post by tadaensylvermane »

Have you noticed that Handbrake is in the Debian repo (0.9.9 in stable and 0.10 in testing)? And whatever makemkv does proabably can be done with some tool from Deb multimedia...
I didn't notice handbrake but I wanted to avoid deb-multimedia as I have heard bad things about it and adding non official repos kind of screws up the "stable" part of it. As was pointed out to me in another thread I would be on my own with packages from there. Mythtv is also in deb-multimedia. I wanted to go pure Debian for it's stability, but if the packages I need are in 3rd party repos then so much for that. I suppose my using a ppa for makemkv is the same thing but as I understand it ppas are under a certain level of scrutiny. I don't know if the same is true about deb-multimedia.

I came up with the idea for my server of just running a virtual machine with the deb-multimedia repo and using that as my mythtv backend but at that point it just became more to manage. With Ubuntu server having it in the repos it just made sense, and is far easier to keep up with.

Don't get me wrong though, not preaching the joys of Ubuntu. Sometimes it's not the most stable as I had thought. I have a script on my server that runs updates and reboot itself at 4am Sunday mornings to keep little things from creeping in. My laptop also does the occasional strange thing that I know probably wouldn't be an issue with Debian. Just gotta have those packages, and not up for trusting in a 3rd party repo that isn't monitored to well. I read that some time ago deb-multimedia was using nonstandard libs and just made a mess of things. I need relative stability while keeping the packages I need. If I could get those packages direct from the Debian repos I would go back in a heartbeat.

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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#16 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

tadaensylvermane wrote:as I understand it ppas are under a certain level of scrutiny.
Not at all.
http://askubuntu.com/questions/35629/ar ... tch-out-fo

IMO, Debian-Multimedia is far "safer" and more secure.
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#17 Post by stevepusser »

In fact, I sort of remember looking at the makemkv PPA, and discovering that it's part open source and part closed-source binary, and only free for use while in beta: http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1053

Not anything that will evar get into Debian.

I can confirm that the Windows 1.9.2 beta will install and the GUI will come up using wine-staging 1.7.43. Probably the simplest way to get wine-staging on Debian is with playonlinux.
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Linadian
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#18 Post by Linadian »

I never understood the attraction to the actual Ubuntu (after several tests over the years), I've used several derivatives but have moved on to PCLinuxOS because of spyware and systemd in both Debian and the *buntus. The actual Ubuntu was never that great, I remember bugs and configuration problems, and it was always ugly as sin, I got the intention behind their 'human' theme, but it was still ugly, like a stool with blood in it, lol. :roll:

The highest out of 10 I would have ever scored it would maybe been a 7, there are/were 9s and 10s out there. Now it's just another spyware Windows with a different kernel under the hood, they should call it ETbuntu, since it likes to phone home so much. :roll:
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#19 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Linadian wrote:they should call it ETbuntu, since it likes to phone home so much. :roll:
QFT :D
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somebodyelse
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Re: How do Debianites feel about Ubuntu?

#20 Post by somebodyelse »

I've just set up an Xfce installation of Jessie. I had a problem with Qt5 apps and was resigned to using KDE or Gnome. However after some weeks on KDE and never really taking to it, I resolved to fix the Qt5 app font problems in Xfce. Having solved these problems, there were lots of little niggling issues that I only discovered one by one. Nothing major and, as a Debian user, I am happy to configure my system. However, with Xubuntu everything works out of the box. So the Buntus have a place.

I am suspicious with the agreements they make developers sign but as Richard Stallman points out this is no different to Fedora or openSUSE.

However, I really think anyone who doesn't recognise the right to fork and goes on about Mir/Wayland is either probably a Microsoft/SUSE agent provocateur or an idiot who is just looking for ways to dislike Canonical (or both). Mir is a 100% non-issue. Development of Mir doesn't prevent development of Wayland. Intel/Nvidia/AMD have to decide where they stand? So what. That's the way it's always been.

Unity I like a lot, although a lot of its functionality (lenses etc.) is completely irrelevant to the way I use a computer.

I don't like its ambivalence to free software (shared by Arch, openSUSE, Slackware and Gentoo) or by the way the freedom side of "free" is played down against the no-cost side.

As for QT5 fonts, this worked for me (taken from https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php ... 1#p1350501):

Make a file called /etc/fonts/local.conf and put the following in it.

Code: Select all

<?xml version='1.0'?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM 'fonts.dtd'>
<fontconfig>
 
 <!-- Hinting -->
 <match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="hinting">
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match> 
 
 <!-- Hint Style -->
 <match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle">
   <const>hintslight</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 
 <!-- Anti-aliasing -->
 <match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="antialias">
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
</fontconfig>

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