Interesting and technical article above systemd + trolling

[Danielsan]

Hi guys, this is not an article against systemd but is the first true analisys how systemd really works instead of the all marketing blab we have heard about it (especially from Poettering): http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/

Then there is a very interesting fact, Fedora changed is policy to package their software so now they can bundle package with external library... Now, please permit me to be a little bit troll... Is not this a fantastic way to inoculate blobs inside systemd since it is released as LGPL? Is it finally started the phase 2?

[Wheelerof4te]

http://forums.debian.net/search.php?keywords=Systemd

[Head_on_a_Stick]

please permit me to be a little bit troll

No.

*puts fingers in ears* I'm not listening, na na na...

[edbarx]

To Danielsan:

Why don't you redirect your energy to doing something that can help improve the situation? If you put some genuine effort you may find that you have potential to become a catalyst for a wider choice.

[GarryRicketson]

please permit me to be a little bit troll

No.

*puts fingers in ears* I'm not listening, na na na...

My solution:
http://forums.debian.net/ucp.php?i=zebr ... =Danielsan
And just a friendly reminder:
Forum guidelines. Please read before first post!

The following might get your post/ thread LOCKED
- Flaming/ personal attacks
- Obvious trolling
- Thread has wandered way off topic
- Cross posting

If the OP had not admitted that it is " please permit me to be a little bit troll" and had not included the

+trolling

in the title, I would never realized that was what they are trying to do,..ok, well any way at least the OP was honest about it and asked for "permission"

please permit me to be a little bit troll

If the administration or moderators decide to leave this topic open, that is fine, I won't be following it though.

[Danielsan]

Well, I am Italian, now I noticed that my irony is not understandable: 1) due to my culture; 2) because problem of communication as the English which is not my first language even if I live in the US.

I don't need to do any effort to change the situation about systemd, I did and I do enough for Debian (primarily in the Italian community), the world is free, the people can do whatever they want in the respect of all. I just posted a technical article and posted a novelty about Fedora packaging, thus I simply did 1 + 1, because packaging software bundles with external libraries goes perfectly with the license wherewith is released systemd; and if systemd is going to be depending on external blobs Debian can not do nothing because the LGPL.

After that you can put me in the ignore list if you want, you are free and you can even ban me, I am enough adult to take my own responsibility.

I haven't commented anymore nothing in any threads of someone else about systemd, I opened my own thread to post an interesting article and I took the liberty to be a little bit ironic, what is going to be ridiculous is not me is the omerta around systemd, do you want convert this theme as a taboo, fine...but it is ridiculous.

[oswaldkelso]

It was a very good article and well worth a read.

I think it an unfortunate to choose the words relating to "trolling" but it was obvious to me there was no trolling intended and it was tongue in cheek. I think some of the pro-systemd folks need to chill a wee bit. Ignore the thread or the poster and move on. In ten year here I've never added anyone to an ignore list. I'm quite capable of ignoring people and certain threads and there are plenty threads worth ignoring on any forum.

Knowledge is power as is said and if some folks don't want to be empowered bully for them. But systemd is a very controversial subject and I for one want to hear rational arguments from both sides, especially new points of view.

[Danielsan]

Even though the source is blatantly anti systemd, the article is very well written, the authors know well the matter, and the approach is scientific.

Eventually is like most of us already knew even without being a coders or developers, they simply reinvented the wheel again.

[dasein]

I don't know what article folks are referring to. The link I clicked on took me to an article that is horribly written and absolutely impenetrable. The author (singular) has always been very wordy, but this time he's outdone himself.

Data, not opinion: In English, the editorial "rule of thumb" regarding sentence length and readability goes something like this:

• - 10 words or less: easy to very easy
  - 11-20 words: typical
  - 21-30 words: difficult to very difficult
  - > 30 words: all-but-unreadable

Of the 350 sentences in this "article," the most verbose 100 sentences average over 40 words per sentence. By implication, not quite every third sentence requires a jackhammer to even try to penetrate. And the worst 10 offenders average 62 words per sentence. Jogging waist-deep in molasses would be easy by comparison.

And it's not just sentence length. Those same 100-or-so sentences have an average "fog index" of 23. (The "fog index" is an estimate of the number of years of schooling required for full comprehension.) Translation: even a post-doctoral fellow will struggle to understand this piece.

Maybe I'm just a wuss, but I gave up trying to penetrate this obfuscated mess. If the author wants my time, he can at least make an effort to respect it.

I confess that I am deeply suspicious of anyone claiming to have read the entire thing, much less to have understood it. And I find myself equally suspicious of the author's underlying motive: surely he's smart enough to recognize that sentences approaching 80 words in length are absolutely incomprehensible. Call me cynical, but I can't help but think that that level of incomprehensibility is entirely intentional. As I closed the browser tab, I found myself reminded of the old saying that begins "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance..."

Speaking only for myself, I just don't think this forum needs another systemd troll thread. Surely a dozen is enough. The horse is not only dead, but has long since rotted away.

[Wheelerof4te]

^+1

Text is very hard to follow, even for native english speakers. I have a feeling that author wanted to look like an expert, but he fails miserably. True experts know how to explain things in plain language. In other words, they use both writing styles: expert and plain. Plain language is often used to support the ''PhD-style'' sentences.

[golinux]

I heard the guy who wrote this also is responsible for uselessd. The link was posted on #debianfork. I couldn't understand it either but that's no surprise - I'm not the intended audience.

[dasein]

True experts know how to explain things in plain language.

I am reminded of a story involving Nobel laureate Richard Feynman, who was asked by a colleague to explain an esoteric point in particle physics. Feynman replied that he would prepare a freshman lecture on the subject.

A few days later, Feynman reported back that he found himself unable to prepare a freshman lecture on the topic, which led him to conclude that he didn't really understand it.

(Sorry... bit of a hijack. I just love telling that story.)

For those that don't know the name, Feynman was famous for his captivating and lucid freshman lectures in physics (which, by all accounts, he loved to prepare and present). I've watched a few, and they are magnificent pedagogy and just way too entertaining.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/

[Loomx]

Regarding Feynman - when he was at Los Alamos he gave a lecture to the (fairly esteemed) crowd there about mathematics: he started from basic counting and reasoned his way through the basic operations all the way up to Euler's equation (!)
This is described in the book "Genius", by James Gleick.
Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall for that lecture...

[Danielsan]

Is pretty funny watching you talking about the style of the article instead of the article, is like the saying of Confucius:

"When the wise man points at the Moon, the idiot looks at the finger.”

As the article is published outside an academic institution is not make sense talking about it's style because is off topic.

[jarlaxl]

The problem is that it was dark and the idiot could see neither the wiseman not the finger (if he had any)

[tomazzi]

I've found this article very interesting, professional and well backed by external resources.

I agree that the terms and language used are quite complex - so it's definitely not a "general-purpose" article.

In this aspect, the article is a failed attempt to show the problem - only a programmer or advanced, professional user (administrator?) can understand what is this all about...

Regards.

[edbarx]

I've found this article very interesting, professional and well backed by external resources.

I agree that the terms and language used are quite complex - so it's definitely not a "general-purpose" article.

In this aspect, the article is a failed attempt to show the problem - only a programmer or advanced, professional user (administrator?) can understand what is this all about...

Regards.

The heading for the article is:

Structural and semantic deficiencies in the systemd architecture for real-world service management, a technical treatise

Since it is a 'technical treatise', readers are expected to have the required technical concepts.

[tomazzi]

The heading for the article is:

Structural and semantic deficiencies in the systemd architecture for real-world service management, a technical treatise


Since it is a 'technical treatise', readers are expected to have the required technical concepts.

Exactly, but ... just take a look at some comments in this little thread ...

[jarlaxl]

The heading for the article is:

Structural and semantic deficiencies in the systemd architecture for real-world service management, a technical treatise


Since it is a 'technical treatise', readers are expected to have the required technical concepts.

Exactly, but ... just take a look at some comments in this little thread ...

+3.14
I d say take a look at all posts in this little thread and show me the moon.. oo sorry a technical treatised comment i meant.