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Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-29 15:56
by groze
Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base? EPSON printer depends on this. I can't confirm this in Debian stretch but I confirm this in Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu 16.04 which is loosely based on Debian stretch. I can't test Debian stretch until there is a non-free iso image available (If there is one available please point to it). My system needs some proprietary drives to work.

I don't know if this is related to lsb issue or not. Either by doing a clean install or upgrade to Ubuntu 16.04 some cds will no longer mount. I also noticed this won't mount in Fedora xfce spin. Obliviously, there is some file that was removed but was there in the previous version of Ubuntu or Fedora.

Any timeline when Debian Stretch non-free xfce4 iso will be released?

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-29 17:43
by No_windows
groze wrote:Any timeline when Debian Stretch non-free xfce4 iso will be released?


Released? .....or available? Stretch is Testing right now, and will be released whenever it's deemed ready.......which usually takes awhile.

I have no idea when non-free isos are made available, maybe not until Testing becomes Stable.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-29 18:20
by Bulkley
The Linux Standard Base (LSB) is a specification that purports to define the services and application-level ABIs that a Linux distribution will provide for use by third-party programs. But some in the Debian project are questioning the value of maintaining LSB compliance—it has become, they say, a considerable amount of work for little measurable benefit.


You can read more here: Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base

With printers there is almost always a work-around. Do a little digging.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-29 21:16
by Alley Cat
Bulkley wrote:
The Linux Standard Base (LSB) is a specification that purports to define the services and application-level ABIs that a Linux distribution will provide for use by third-party programs. But some in the Debian project are questioning the value of maintaining LSB compliance—it has become, they say, a considerable amount of work for little measurable benefit.


You can read more here: Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base

With printers there is almost always a work-around. Do a little digging.


It affects Google Earth as well. With the *buntu 16.04 versions, you have to pull the lsb files from the 15.10 repos to get GE to work.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-29 22:19
by groze
Does Opensuse 42.x work with Epson xp-310 printers? I tried the workaround by installing certain 4.1 lsb deb from archive dot ubuntu dot com The only other option is to create some sort of franken temporally just to install lsb using either Mint or Ubuntu repository.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-29 22:30
by Bulkley
groze wrote:Does Opensuse 42.x work with Epson xp-310 printers? I tried the workaround by installing certain 4.1 lsb deb from archive dot ubuntu dot com The only other option is to create some sort of franken temporally just to install lsb using either Mint or Ubuntu repository.


Installing debs from ubuntu can wreck your system. If things go haywire you know where to look.


Why not install lsb-base from Debian repros?

Code: Select all
apt-get install lsb-base

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-30 01:13
by emariz
groze wrote:Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base? EPSON printer depends on this.

The printers Epson L110/210/300/350/355/550/555 work best with the driver epson-inkjet-printer-201207w (1), which is based on LSB 3.2.
Believe it or not, the printers work perfectly without installing the package LSB, as long as one creates a symbolic link (2). Afterwards, one can force the installation of the printer driver (whose only dependency is lsb >= 3.2), and then override the dependency list to continue using Aptitude or Apt (3).

I did not look for this solution when Debian dropped the Linux Standard Base but years earlier, when it was enforced; precisely because I did not want to install dozens of packages which seemed irrelevant to the task in question.

1. https://www.openprinting.org/printer/Ep ... 355_Series
2. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/840998
3. https://debian-handbook.info/browse/sta ... -dpkg.html

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-30 02:22
by eor2004
I remember when I was using another linux distro some time ago and I wanted to install my Epson Stylus NX130 MFP, I then went to Epson website and downloaded the .deb drivers for it, then I used Gdebi to install the packages and Gdebi told me that it needed to download about 60 packages LSB included, I said in my mind "what the hell, 60 packages just to make printer work?" but I needed to use printer so I installed the packages, with time I gained more knowledge about linux and discovered that I could make the printer work by installing it using CUPS native linux drivers and printer worked flawlessly, the only packages I needed to install from Epson website was two "iscan" .deb drivers to make scanner work with Sane, Xsane, Simple-Scan, ect...

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-04-30 03:37
by groze
Bulkley wrote:
groze wrote:Does Opensuse 42.x work with Epson xp-310 printers? I tried the workaround by installing certain 4.1 lsb deb from archive dot ubuntu dot com The only other option is to create some sort of franken temporally just to install lsb using either Mint or Ubuntu repository.


Installing debs from ubuntu can wreck your system. If things go haywire you know where to look.


Why not install lsb-base from Debian repros?

Code: Select all
apt-get install lsb-base


Lets roll back. I tried different Linux & windows systems. I guess my post wasn't clear enough. For the Record I used non-free Debian Jessie and the Epson printer worked without issue. I also used these distros Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu 14.04.4 lts, Mint 17.3 and now I am trying Xubuntu 16.04, which isn't working to well.

Did you see the word temporally? Which mean the file will be deleted before updating the system. Anyways, upgrading from a 14.04.4 to 16.04 lts keep the lsb files intact, they are not removed. Same difference as adding a repository or adding a bunch of deb files manually.

In Xubuntu 16.04 lsb-base is already installed. I tried a force install of the Epson printer and it didn't work on the 16.04 lts system.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-05-01 01:22
by tomazzi
Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

That's a really good question...

Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base
"noone is interested" or "nobody cares about" can be directly translated to "we just don't give a shit about standards"

I'm expecting that the next standard which will be dropped by the Debian team will be the POSIX.

...Oh wait, they can't just drop it - because f.e. both kernel and glibc developers don't give a shit about what the Debian devs are thinking about standards...

Regards.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-05-01 09:56
by edbarx
The plague of seeing standards as obstacles has been with humanity at least for the last thirty years. These days having standards is sadly seen as getting less business. This is very evident if one has a look at tools as many manufacturers greedily opt to require anyone repairing their products to use their tools.

This is getting ridiculous. Someone said, greed will be the cause of humanity's demise; I hope against logic they are not correct.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-05-03 21:26
by tomazzi
+1 ;)

edbarx wrote:The plague of seeing standards as obstacles has been with humanity at least for the last thirty years

Well, I think that this "plague" is a result of the low level of the education, which can be commonly seen among today's programmers:
They usually don't know how the computer works (CPU) - therefore they are sentenced to write a crappy code. But what is really funny, they think that they are discovering some new opportunities - while in fact they are just reinventing the wheel...

What is really strange, such greenhorns are hired by apparently serious companies like Intel - which is trying (and fails) to develop a CPU which will correct bugs made by programmers: I mean the TSX extension. (Haswel +)

The stupidity of Intel fits into a general definition of the problem:
"If we have stupid and/or not well educated programmers, which are unable to understand how multithreading works, then let's try to create a CPU which is invulnerable to a stupid code" ...

Of course all those efforts have failed, but Intel have officially proclaimed a "success" (in reality, the correctly written code doesn't take any benefits, but a totally fucked up code can be executed faster by a "whopping" 10%) - stupidity in a flawless form.

btw, the same applies to their PBC (pointer bounds checking) extension, which in fact is just slowing down the execution of the code.

Not that I'm Intel hater or something - but the latest Intel "improvements" are just a shining examples of the problem - the humanity is in regression, in almost all aspects.

Regards.

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-05-04 02:12
by HuangLao
Who needs standards? Ahem, perhaps it will be replaced with RedHat Standard Base. :lol:

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-05-04 10:58
by Ardouos
HuangLao wrote:Who needs standards? Ahem, perhaps it will be replaced with RedHat Standard Base. :lol:


Systemd Standard Base :lol:

Re: Why is Debian dropping the Linux Standard Base?

PostPosted: 2016-05-04 18:29
by HuangLao
or CoreOS Standard Base :roll: