Debian User Forums

Then you won't have any trouble linking to all this hard data right? Anyway suck my digital-dong punk.

Peace to the good nixers here sorry for the negativity. Peace out.

Are there no moderators here?

As for you "Deb-fan", I hope you find peace. Why are you like this? Were you born this way, or did it come upon you by degrees, or was it something you really had to work at?

Deb-fan wrote:Then you won't have any trouble linking to all this hard data right? Anyway suck my digital-dong punk.

Peace to the good nixers here sorry for the negativity. Peace out.

Many of the people who posted in this thread are regular posters for years of the debian forum, and I respect their opinion. I also respect the newer systemd fan boi. I meant no disrespect, I only rebutted the argument that, "Lennart is smarter than me, therefore he is smarter than everyone."

My apologies if my posts offended.

bw123 wrote:I meant no disrespect, I only rebutted the argument that, "Lennart is smarter than me, therefore he is smarter than everyone."

No doubt a developer who can revamp Linux must be intelligent. However, writing C-Code, the language in which systemd is coded, is not beyond human comprehension. C can be fun if one is aware of its power. The latter does not mean doing big coding in a few lines like in many 'popular' languages, but being able to write anything from kernels upwards.

I have a question but it is not related to computers or Linux.

Lately, I have been trying to determine if an inductance meter was giving correct readings. How did I solve the problem? Google didn't give much help. I had only a magnetic core and a piece of insulated wire that I could use to wind an inductor. The magnetic properies of the core were not known.

How did I make sure the inductance meter was reading correctly? The tools to use are the inductance meter itself and mathematics.

Is this a safe way to replace systemd on your system?

/tmp wrote:Is this a safe way to replace systemd on your system?

No, many things will break.

Use Devuan instead, that's what it's for...

Or Alpine Linux. Or Void. Or SliTaZ. Or TinyCore. Or Slackware. Or OpenBSD. Or HardenedBSD. Or FreeBSD. Or TrueOS. Or DragonFly BSD. Or Haiku. Or 9front. Or...

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

/tmp wrote:Is this a safe way to replace systemd on your system?

No, many things will break.

Use Devuan instead, that's what it's for...

Or Alpine Linux. Or Void. Or SliTaZ. Or TinyCore. Or Slackware. Or OpenBSD. Or HardenedBSD. Or FreeBSD. Or TrueOS. Or DragonFly BSD. Or Haiku. Or 9front. Or...

Damn. I may just dual-boot to FreeBSD if it plays nicely with my laptop's hardware.

Also, is there any way of reversing the decision at the upper echelons of Debian's development?

/tmp wrote:[
Damn. I may just dual-boot to FreeBSD if it plays nicely with my laptop's hardware.

At the freebsd forum there is a sticky thread about laptop compatibility. Suprisingly much works, but the support is not nearly as good as linux (of course).

Also, is there any way of reversing the decision at the upper echelons of Debian's development?

I think that "ship sailed already" so to speak.

/tmp wrote:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

/tmp wrote:Is this a safe way to replace systemd on your system?

No, many things will break.

Use Devuan instead, that's what it's for...

Or Alpine Linux. Or Void. Or SliTaZ. Or TinyCore. Or Slackware. Or OpenBSD. Or HardenedBSD. Or FreeBSD. Or TrueOS. Or DragonFly BSD. Or Haiku. Or 9front. Or...

Damn. I may just dual-boot to FreeBSD if it plays nicely with my laptop's hardware.

Also, is there any way of reversing the decision at the upper echelons of Debian's development?

Why 'Damn'? You asked about a way to remove systemd from Debian. Devuan IS Debian with systemd removed - works beautifully. I've been using it for months. Instead, though, you talk going to FreeBSD, which if you haven't messed with it, is very, very different from Debian or any other distro. Give Devuan a try...

I have Devuan on a laptop but I am not suitable for a stable release, eventually I had to backport many pieces like the kernel.
With the adoption of systemd we can say Debian is not anymore a conservative distro like Gentoo or Slackware, so if you want really use Devuan is because you have (or want) a conservative approach.

However I am still sitting on the river's edge waiting for the corpse of systemd, a giant hole is hiding somewhere ready to revenge all of us...

Danielsan wrote:I am not suitable for a stable release

Yes, we've noticed...



EDIT: scnr

sgage wrote:
Why 'Damn'? You asked about a way to remove systemd from Debian. Devuan IS Debian with systemd removed - works beautifully. I've been using it for months. Instead, though, you talk going to FreeBSD, which if you haven't messed with it, is very, very different from Debian or any other distro. Give Devuan a try...

I'm trying to use plain old Debian partly as a working example of a stable and reliable distro for work (my boss uses CentOS and I'm trying to switch us to Debian).
I used to use FreeBSD years ago so I'm somewhat familiar with it; I like knowing multiple *NIX ways to solve problems

/tmp wrote:

sgage wrote:
Why 'Damn'? You asked about a way to remove systemd from Debian. Devuan IS Debian with systemd removed - works beautifully. I've been using it for months. Instead, though, you talk going to FreeBSD, which if you haven't messed with it, is very, very different from Debian or any other distro. Give Devuan a try...

I'm trying to use plain old Debian partly as a working example of a stable and reliable distro for work (my boss uses CentOS and I'm trying to switch us to Debian).
I used to use FreeBSD years ago so I'm somewhat familiar with it; I like knowing multiple *NIX ways to solve problems

That's cool. I just wanted to let you know that Devuan IS stable and reliable - it's Debian without systemd, that's all. But you know what you're doing, and what you want...

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Yes, we've noticed...

This was funny

EDIT: scnr

But this one was...

sgage wrote:

/tmp wrote:

sgage wrote:
Why 'Damn'? You asked about a way to remove systemd from Debian. Devuan IS Debian with systemd removed - works beautifully. I've been using it for months. Instead, though, you talk going to FreeBSD, which if you haven't messed with it, is very, very different from Debian or any other distro. Give Devuan a try...

I'm trying to use plain old Debian partly as a working example of a stable and reliable distro for work (my boss uses CentOS and I'm trying to switch us to Debian).
I used to use FreeBSD years ago so I'm somewhat familiar with it; I like knowing multiple *NIX ways to solve problems

That's cool. I just wanted to let you know that Devuan IS stable and reliable - it's Debian without systemd, that's all. But you know what you're doing, and what you want...

I'm more concerned about fracturing the GNU/Linux landscape further. Let's say that Devuan becomes discontinued in a year. Would I be able to change repos on the system and point them back to Debian GNU/Linux without breaking the system?

/tmp wrote:I'm more concerned about fracturing the GNU/Linux landscape further. Let's say that Devuan becomes discontinued in a year. Would I be able to change repos on the system and point them back to Debian GNU/Linux without breaking the system?

In addition to desktop users, there is already a lot of infrastructure running and counting on Devuan. It is not going away anytime soon.

sgage wrote:
That's cool. I just wanted to let you know that Devuan IS stable and reliable - it's Debian without systemd, that's all. But you know what you're doing, and what you want...

Devuan is only semi-stable. And bug resolution is horrendous crap. No reply ( at all ) on a bug filed... oh it has to be 6+ months ago now. Using Chromium under Cinnamon kills X.org if you have ANY extensions enabled on my machine, while using Chromium with all extensions like normal under XFCE / KDE / LXDE works fine. Persists with new users created for testing.

I like the reasons fro Devuan, but they need to build up some more man power in the dev team, and really get some triage going for bugs that get reported.


Hmm, looking a bit further they actually have a BTS now... I wonder if they bothered to import outstanding bugs from the old github bug tracking that was crap to use.

pendrachken wrote:Using Chromium under Cinnamon kills X.org if you have ANY extensions enabled on my machine, while using Chromium with all extensions like normal under XFCE / KDE / LXDE works fine. Persists with new users created for testing.

Cinnamon has three strikes against it - gnome, lots of gtk-3 and ubuntu. That makes it one of the worst choices to install on Devuan. Devuan humors desktop users but the focus is on a platform that can be used to admin large installations for real work.

pendrachken wrote:I like the reasons fro Devuan, but they need to build up some more man power in the dev team, and really get some triage going for bugs that get reported.

This is true and the team is acquiring some real talent. But again . . . desktop stuff is not a priority.

pendrachken wrote:Hmm, looking a bit further they actually have a BTS now... I wonder if they bothered to import outstanding bugs from the old github bug tracking that was crap to use.

Yes, those bugs - at least the most critical ones - have been imported. A resource that helped us get a handle on the bugs submitted on Devuan's gitlab (not github) can be found here and here

Time to "wake up and smell the coffee"?

In less than two weeks time Jessie with systemd will be two years old.

Two years.

Two years and some people are still whinging.

What will this whinging achieve? To the official Debian, nothing. The Developers are not going to throw out systemd and revert to systvinit. Change people away from Debian to use something else? Using Debian User Forums to promote that?

Jessie was released as Stable. Not destructive. Not slightly unstable. Stable.

Debian with systemd is greatly more popular than any fork or derivative based on sysvinit.

Get over it.

picture hosting

During the last few weeks I needed to install software for a USB external oscilloscope. First, like a purist, although I am nowhere near someone like that, I searched online for an open source oscilloscope. Notwithstanding I successfully succeeded to compile the C++ code after many days of struggling, I couldn't make the software comunicate with the hardware as no drivers worked. At the end, I decided it would be idiotic of me not using my newly purchased oscilloscope just because it couldn't function with open sourced projects. So, to make it short, I installed MS Windows 8.1 and it worked like a charm.

Going back on topic: if systemd proves to be reliable and trustworthy as an init, and if it does not put rods into the spokes of freedom, more specifically, if it does not assume everyone likes the same cup of tea, any reluctant users would adopt it sooner or later.

Discussions like these require posters to be objective like a research scientist who uses mathematical tools to test their hypotheses.

Some pertinent questions are:
i) Did the adoption of systemd increase software choice?
ii) Does it promote more flexibility in having libraries depending on which package loads an operating system?
iii) Is software 'communism', that is, is having everyone with the same system setup, an advantage to users or to personal data miners?
iv) Is Big Business putting its fingers where it shouldn't?
v) How many open source developers work for big business in directorate positions? Do these have a conflict of interest?