systemd is destructive

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2016-09-25 18:16

cpoakes wrote:I have no experience with sid or stretch but have heard rumblings this may no longer be true. Can anyone comment?

As golinux mentions, the systemd-shim package has been orphaned:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=832508

I have just installed a fresh sid system and it will boot happily to a console screen under sysvinit (using the orphaned package and following https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser#How_can_I_prevent_systemd_to_run_as_PID_1_.28init.29_on_Jessie.3F), I will try adding a desktop later and report back if there are any problems.
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 8010
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby M51 » 2016-09-26 02:35

jibberjabber wrote:
by phenest » Given there are other choices, what's the need for these threads?

Trolls get hungry, so they need these kind of threads to feed them.
One good thing about these kind of threads , it helps keep them out of the other threads and topics where Debian Users are really trying to solve the problems
or get help solving the problems they have.
For example,
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:In respect of the actual problem, try editing the file at /etc/systemd/logind.conf and un-comment and change these two lines:
Code: Select all
KillUserProcesses=yes
KillExcludeUsers=

See logind.conf(5) for more.

Does the problem then still persist if you reboot with systemd as PID1?


and then the OP admits they have no interest in learning how to use a system
with systemd, all they are interested in is whining and ranting about how bad
it is.
by M51 » I didn't post to get help (thus the choice of the general discussion forum), but rather just to let people know the issue exists. I did the testing I needed to isolate the problem (systemd) and remove it.
I have no interest in troubleshooting systemd itself, and the chance of systemd ever being PID1 on any of my machines again is precisely zero.



Not a troll you fuckhead, I posted it in general discussion because I didn't need help but was letting other people know the issue exists, that is all. I already solved the problem in the best way possible by removing systemd. I am not interested in troubleshooting why systemd is broken because it is a waste of time. I already know exactly what those settings do and know they won't help. In fact I probably know systemd much better than most of the people around here, which is precisely why I know it's a waste of time.
M51
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 2013-05-13 01:38

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2016-09-26 05:31

@M51:
A 'spirited' discussion is ok, profanity and abuse is not - have a week off.
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
User avatar
dilberts_left_nut
 
Posts: 4887
Joined: 2009-10-05 07:54
Location: enzed

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby MALsPa » 2016-09-26 06:09

M51 wrote:In fact I probably know systemd much better than most of the people around here, which is precisely why I know it's a waste of time.

A waste of your time.

Thanks for the info. I don't know squat about the differences between these init systems, and I can't really say that I care, as long as things are working for me (and they are). I do appreciate when people take the time to tell about what they're seeing. It's good to be aware of the fact that systemd is not good for some people. On my computers, Debian seems to be just as good as it's ever been, if not better. I guess we'll all see how things turn out, going forward. Maybe we won't have systemd much longer, or maybe it'll be replaced with a new init system at some point? I guess somebody will get it figured out. No complaints coming from here, but others know a lot more about all of this than I'll ever know. These threads are somewhat entertaining, at least.
MALsPa
 
Posts: 641
Joined: 2007-12-07 19:20
Location: albuquerque

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby GarryRicketson » 2016-09-26 07:09

by jibberjabber » Trolls get hungry, so they need these kind of threads to feed them.

I just woke up , and am hungry, so I decided to crawl out from
under my bridge, ................

These are interesting :
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

and
https://www.maketecheasier.com/systemd-what-you-need-to-know-linux/

I am also a rather cautious person, and "new fangled" things scare me,
so that is why I still use Debian Squeeze, and Wheezy on my system,
How ever, I am interested in learning about new versions , and new systems,
so I installed Debian 8 jessie with systemd , and also Sid as well, on VM's
There are some things I still have trouble understanding about systemd ,
but I have not had anything happen to make me believe it is "destructive",
What is destructive or can be destructive , is when someone that does not
understand the system they are working with, does things without testing
them first on a VM, I did crash the Debian 8 system once, but it was not the
fault of systemd,... it was my own fault for not doing a little more research
first,...
I don't worry about it very much, and pretty much agree with Dasein:
by dasein » If y'all insist on utterly pointless bickering about something you don't really understand, flogging a horse that's not only long dead but badly decomposed, then by all means knock yourselves out.


So any way, guess I am going to go back under my bridge, I am "full"
now,... Thanks for the free meal,....
And if people don't like the "free meal" , really they should just look for
another "soup line", instead of complaining about it,...Or get in their
and volunteer , to help the "cooks" produce a better meal.
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2016-09-26 17:26

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I will try adding a desktop later and report back if there are any problems.

Success!

viewtopic.php?p=625743#p625743

:)

Runs sweet as a nut, I will have to try it with dwm and a console login to see if I can kill those stray tentacles :mrgreen:

EDIT: Aaargh! I hate libinput... :x

EDIT2: But Wayland is sweet, absolutely no tearing on my Intel laptop, which is a first :)
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 8010
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby Job » 2016-09-28 17:25

Head_on_a_Stick, how is your performance? I failed miserably once when I tried removing Systemd. Me think I should give it another shot.
#aptitude install life
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stretch - Devuan - Jessie (Media Center, yes, believe it)
User avatar
Job
 
Posts: 786
Joined: 2006-12-30 20:20
Location: no clue

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby deborah-and-ian » 2016-09-28 18:32

Still wondering what the point is of these discussions other than afternoon excitement for tr00 *NIX users, RDUs and basement dwellers.
I mean, the procedure is always the same:

1. you complain about systemd
2. people tell you to report a bug
3. you don't want to report a bug, but spill a diatribe about how evil systemd is
4. people tell you they don't agree with you
5. 3+4 are repeated for 10 long pages until one of the aforementioned basement dwellers either gets their surrogate trolling induced orgasm or a mod closes the thread.
6. nothing is gained. Meanwhile, Devuan takes ages to develop. If all that energy went towards developing/promoting/designing... Let's see... Nah!
Debian GNU/Linux 9 Stretch w/Openbox

Acer Aspire E5-521G
AMD A8-6410 APU
4 GB RAM
integrated AMD Mullins
dedicated AMD Hainan Radeon R5 M240 2 GB
240 GB Toshiba Q300 SSD
Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 ethernet
Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 wireless
deborah-and-ian
 
Posts: 182
Joined: 2016-07-13 08:40

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby HuangLao » 2016-09-28 18:46

and yet you found the time to comment on said thread.
User avatar
HuangLao
 
Posts: 460
Joined: 2015-01-27 01:31

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby oswaldkelso » 2016-09-28 20:36

https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_ ... _one_tweet

How to Crash Systemd in One Tweet

The following command, when run as any user, will crash systemd:

Is this true? Any one feeling brave enough or have a spare machine to test it on

Code: Select all
NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""
Ash init durbatulûk, ash init gimbatul,
Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
User avatar
oswaldkelso
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: 2005-07-26 23:20
Location: UK

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2016-09-28 21:03

oswaldkelso wrote:Is this true?

Yes, that freezes my Arch [testing] system with the exception of some wall messages every 100s or so -- the system is trying to obey the power switch but is obviously pause()d...

No different to a fork bomb really.

Job wrote:how is your performance?

Seems fine, no different to booting with systemd, AFAICT.

I should note that the box is *not* systemd free, it just has sysvinit running as PID1.

As an aside, I really don't understand why those who claim that systemd violates the UNIX way then embrace sysvint happily, the latter transgresses the "do one thing well" rule in exactly the same way as is claimed for systemd :?

sysvinit must die

:mrgreen:
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 8010
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby GarryRicketson » 2016-09-28 21:16

There are simple commands that will crash a systemV init system as well,
It is good to be aware of them, so as not to type them in at the command prompt.
In fact one is considerably shorter.
I would post it here, but there might be somebody silly enough to
try it. It has 5 letters or symbols.
So does that mean systemV is destructive as well ?
The destructive element is more the person between the chair and the keyboard.
And not systemd or systemV
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 5133
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby dasein » 2016-09-28 22:03

Image
User avatar
dasein
 
Posts: 7775
Joined: 2011-03-04 01:06
Location: Terra Incantationum

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby deborah-and-ian » 2016-09-29 05:08

HuangLao wrote:and yet you found the time to comment on said thread.

It's hard not to which scares me on a different level. :lol:
Debian GNU/Linux 9 Stretch w/Openbox

Acer Aspire E5-521G
AMD A8-6410 APU
4 GB RAM
integrated AMD Mullins
dedicated AMD Hainan Radeon R5 M240 2 GB
240 GB Toshiba Q300 SSD
Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 ethernet
Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 wireless
deborah-and-ian
 
Posts: 182
Joined: 2016-07-13 08:40

Re: systemd is destructive

Postby deborah-and-ian » 2016-09-29 05:11

oswaldkelso wrote:https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

How to Crash Systemd in One Tweet

The following command, when run as any user, will crash systemd:

Is this true? Any one feeling brave enough or have a spare machine to test it on

Code: Select all
NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""

Tried it on Jessie. The simple command doesn't work, but the while loop proposed in another link crashes systemd here too. So, later today I'm going to look for a bug report. See how I didn't connect this to the NWO, Illuminati and the Lizard People, but am opting instead to do something constructive?
Debian GNU/Linux 9 Stretch w/Openbox

Acer Aspire E5-521G
AMD A8-6410 APU
4 GB RAM
integrated AMD Mullins
dedicated AMD Hainan Radeon R5 M240 2 GB
240 GB Toshiba Q300 SSD
Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 ethernet
Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 wireless
deborah-and-ian
 
Posts: 182
Joined: 2016-07-13 08:40

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

fashionable