GNOME default for Stretch?

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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby phenest » 2016-12-03 23:00

sjukfan wrote:But from what I've heard it seems like a lot of people who run Gnome 3 says there's some extensions or whatsnot that you *have* to install, or articles like The 10 things you have to do after installing Gnome 3. But that might be old things that you don't have to do any longer.

Gimmicky extensions. It's not like Gnome 3 won't work without them or you've lost any functionality by not having them. The first program I install to add some functionality after installing Gnome 3 is... Gnome Terminal!
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby Bulkley » 2016-12-03 23:55

sjukfan wrote:I'm not much of a DE guy at all, I run openbox and tint2 and I'm happy as a pig in mud.


Me too. I don't even have a display manager; I log in from the CLI prompt using sx.

Gnome is only default if one simply selects the desktop environment. There is no need to do so.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby sunrat » 2016-12-04 02:00

Hehe, certainly did open a can of worms. I started this thread due to observing what seems to be a disproportionate amount of support questions here concerning Gnome, but that may be just because, being default, it may have a larger number of users.
There are 2 things that immediately come to mind -
- problems related to video acceleration being required by default
- settings that require installing Tweak Tool that are included by default in other DEs

Note I am not putting Gnome down and respect peoples' preference to use it, just airing an observation.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby phenest » 2016-12-04 10:11

sunrat wrote:Hehe, certainly did open a can of worms. I started this thread due to observing what seems to be a disproportionate amount of support questions here concerning Gnome

Why did you want to open a can of worms? It doesn't fit the title of the thread. Did you get an answer to that question, or do you just like winding people up?
sunrat wrote:There are 2 things that immediately come to mind -
- problems related to video acceleration being required by default

What problems with video acceleration? Or do you mean lack of?
sunrat wrote:- settings that require installing Tweak Tool that are included by default in other DEs

There are no settings in Gnome 3 that require the use of Tweak Tool. For that matter, there are no settings in KDE, Mate, etc that require the use of GUI's neither.

sunrat wrote:Note I am not putting Gnome down and respect peoples' preference to use it, just airing an observation.

Let's just hope that all the other non-Gnome members here don't air their observations as well. Otherwise, this forum is going to fill up with trivial threads like this.

Bulkley wrote:Gnome is only default if one simply selects the desktop environment. There is no need to do so.

+1
And that's all there is to it really. There is no default. You are not forced to install it.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby sunrat » 2016-12-04 12:18

HOAS first post answered the title question, thank you.

And one can't say there is no default. If you select "Desktop Environment" , you get Gnome unless you specifically select another DE.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2016-12-04 12:38

phenest wrote:Indexing? You mean the search box on the Overview?

Yes, I can't stand that stupid crippled launcher, it really does annoy me.

I use the shell for file searches and the search box just isn't as good as dmenu for my use case and dmenu doesn't work under Wayland :(

But I digress... :)

And hey, go easy on sunrat -- this is an interesting thread :P

sunrat wrote:- problems related to video acceleration being required by default

Well, the "fallback" desktop can be selected, although I would like to see that useless error message be reworked to point this out.

Otherwise, I would say that using hardware acceleration to move stuff around the desktop sounds like a much better idea than farming everything out to the CPU, providing the user has a half-decent graphics card.

We have so many threads started here by people trying to enable hardware acceleration for better performance, it seems strange to me to criticise GNOME for offering this functionality.

sunrat wrote:- settings that require installing Tweak Tool that are included by default in other DEs

As phenest notes, that program is only needed for convenience ;)

All of the options in the GNOME desktop can be controlled exclusively from the command line with gsettings(1), this makes the desktop tremendously flexible as it can be scripted into shape :cool:

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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby phenest » 2016-12-04 12:53

sunrat wrote:And one can't say there is no default. If you select "Desktop Environment" , you get Gnome unless you specifically select another DE.

Unless you're finding that challenging, what's the issue? Although, to be fair, it's always been said that "Desktop Environment" is vague and it should state "Gnome 3" instead just for clarity. At least then, you'd know what you're installing.

In fact, how do I (or anyone else who'd like to) tell the Debian devs this needs changing.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2016-12-04 12:58

phenest wrote:how do I (or anyone else who'd like to) tell the Debian devs this needs changing.

https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

I think you would file it against the tasksel package but I'm not sure.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby phenest » 2016-12-04 13:06

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
phenest wrote:Indexing? You mean the search box on the Overview?

Yes, I can't stand that stupid crippled launcher, it really does annoy me.

I use the shell for file searches and the search box just isn't as good as dmenu for my use case and dmenu doesn't work under Wayland :(

If you have Gnome Calculator installed, you can use the search for calculations.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:But I digress... :)

I'm doing it too. Note to self: Don't digress.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:And hey, go easy on sunrat -- this is an interesting thread :P

Apologies to sunrat if I'm coming across a bit harsh. It wasn't my intention.
Yes, it is interesting. But, for me, I want to know why users keep asking this question and why it's a big deal. Perhaps it's just because Gnome is referred to as "Desktop Environment" instead of "Gnome 3".
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby phenest » 2016-12-04 13:09

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
phenest wrote:how do I (or anyone else who'd like to) tell the Debian devs this needs changing.

https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

I think you would file it against the tasksel package but I'm not sure.

Quick question before reporting this:
I've only ever installed Debian from CD1. If you install from a DVD iso (thus having a selection of DE's), is Gnome still referred to as "Desktop Environment", and the other DE's referred to by name?
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby kedaha » 2016-12-04 13:26

I changed to Mate when I upgraded to jessie. I haven't looked at Gnome3 in stretch yet but I will when the time comes to upgrade to stretch.
Why is it the default? I see in the wikipedia article about it:
GNOME is developed by The GNOME Project, which is composed of both volunteers and paid contributors, the largest corporate contributor being Red Hat.

Maybe Red Hat's contributing to it has something to do with it; one can but speculate... :wink:
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby Chiefahol2 » 2018-05-30 15:05

sunrat wrote:It seems to be a common opinion among regular users here that GNOME is the worst of the popular desktop environments. I believe it is still default for Stretch. Why?


Because i've been playing with KDE 5.12.4 and it is the buggiest crashiest desktop i have ever experienced, i can't move files, i can't update, segmentation faults everywhere, root fs is constantly being corrupted.

KDE is pretty bad to be honest, GNOME is boring but at least it works.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby Lysander » 2018-05-30 17:03

Not sure if this deserves a bump but I'll bite. I know a lot of people hate GNOME, but I've never really understood why. It's probably my favourite desktop environment and I've been using it ever since I started with Debian. Yes, it's very different to others but that's what I like about it - it's nothing like a Windows [MS] DE and it's very clean and minimalist, shoving all the applications into the background. Also it really comes into its own when using multiple desktops - moving things around is a breeze.

It also looks awesome. And as much as KDE looks very good too, it crashes too many times for my liking. Also the GIC really doesn't bother me: I have accepted systemd as part of Debian, for better or worse.

EDIT: I wonder where phenest disappeared to.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby arzgi » 2018-05-30 17:57

Lysander wrote:Not sure if this deserves a bump but I'll bite. I know a lot of people hate GNOME, but I've never really understood why.


Some of the critics came when in one forum gnome user asked how to print n-up pages. He knew his printer supported this. Conclusion was that it was not possible in gnome, and then came Linus, how made one of his so popular statements:'Gnome is for idiots!'

What bothers me as xfce user, rarely now, but every now and then I need some program that is available only for gnome, and it pulls half of gnome. I don't even remember how many times I have purged gnome-user-guide.
I think gnome teem does not use dependencies right, program probably runs without user manual for DE.

Old xfce recommend apps page (not available anymore) had some gnome programs, and all them had warnings about heavy dependencies.
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Re: GNOME default for Stretch?

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-05-30 18:42

^The fact that programs require a lot of GNOME dependencies is not the fault of GNOME, but the developers of those programs. And to be fair, those programs have been made to be used with GNOME, not XFCE.

My opinion has always been that GNOME is popular because it's backed by a large player in the FOSS world, that being Red Hat. This gives a sort of certification to GNOME, and ensures it's future. Furthermore, while being minimal to the naked eye of an average user, GNOME is in fact very robust, complex and modern "under the hood". Yes, it lacks the configuration galore of Plasma, but that is also one of it's strengths. It knows what it wants to do, does it and doesn't cave in to the outside demands.

Another good aspect of GNOME would be it's default looks. It has a visual brand, so to say. People instantly recognize it, just like people recognize Windows. Changes are subtle enough not to break the intended (emphasis on the word "intended") workflow. Yes, it actually has it's intended workflow. Developers have though about streamlining the experience, made a different working paradigm that that of 90's style Windows one. The trick? You have to learn and use the keyboard shortcuts. Mouse is just there to assist, you do the heavy lifting using your keys.

Want to close a window? CTRL+Q. Search? Just press the Super key and start typing. That said, you can do a lot just by combining Super key with other keys. It's alright if you can't adapt to this. If that's the case, don't be hostile and disrespectful to one of the largest free software projects ever. Plasma is there, Cinnamon is there, great MATE is there. Use those, but leave GNOME to do what they think it's right for them.
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