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How often do you have to look up the command for something?

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edbarx
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#21 Post by edbarx »

It depends on what command and whether I use it frequently.
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dasein
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#22 Post by dasein »

pylkko wrote:It is an optimizing problem, i.e it make sense to memorize something when the total effort spent is less than the total cumulative effort of looking up over and over again.
Could not have said it better myself. Though I would add a condition where the effort spent pays back in other ways, as well. (Example: rote memorization of the alphabet, in exchange for the ability to read)

Like software development, it's all about how big a payback and how fast.

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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#23 Post by pendrachken »

pylkko wrote:
I find your 'mental calculation' example really unconvincing. That you use emotiomally loaded term 'stupid tables' indicates to me that you are not addressing the issue rationally. What you suggest definetly does not 'save brain space'.. it makes something auyomatic and fast into something slow,effortful, and error prone.
Relying on memory is more error prone than basic math, since basic math can't change. Memorizing some random table IS stupid, especially when most people won't bother to learn how the table is put together in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to memorize a whole table when by simply knowing how it was put together you can put together the small portion you need at the time. Doing simple calculations to reach the answer also becomes automatic, eventually you will get almost instantaneous answers because you will do the calculations so fast you barely even think of them. Zero effort needed, and at least I can check my math as I go instead of hoping that I haven't mis-remembered something, after all, I have personally witnessed Ph.D math professors mess up some really basic stuff from memory.... humans have fallible memories.


Chaining the small calculations to actually put the piece you want is not only just as fast as rote memorization for all intents and purposes, but actually helps out tremendously in higher level mathematics. In higher level math you must break larger problems down into simple easy to work with pieces. In algebra for example, you can't just memorize every single number for when you want to get a number in an equation out from under a square root, you have to actually know square root properties and break the problem down into isolating different pieces of the problem at different steps.

Besides what I already said, as an interesting side note, the way I do it follows the UNIX philosophy: Use multiple small commands chained together to create something larger than the sum of its parts.


As for how "ineffective" it is, there are more than a few buildings that have been standing for the last 17 years that had the steel made with this method, by me, that argue otherwise. Again, being able to break down a problem into small pieces and see how they are put together helps out with projects you are working on. It's pretty easy to see how a whole building will be put together if you think of it like putting lego blocks together to make something, and you don't even have to learn and train yourself how to do it if you don't rely on rote memorization.
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#24 Post by edbarx »

Relying on memory is more error prone than basic math, since basic math can't change.
But recalling basic math is using memory which is more error prone. I think, this is a vicious cycle: recalling from memory is important AND understanding is also important, if not more. Some people may argue, the if not more is questionable, as normally, people do tasks mechanically.
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cpoakes
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#25 Post by cpoakes »

In my bash history, 500 lines spanning what appears to be the last 36-48 hours there are 1 apropos requests and 7 man page requests:

Code: Select all

man xdg-open
man dpkg-query
man apt-file
man feh
apropos column
man column
man col
man cut
suggesting I generally know commands but can't remember all the options. But that's why God created man pages. On second thought, it was Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson.

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dasein
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#26 Post by dasein »

cpoakes wrote:But that's why God created man pages. On second thought, it was Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson.
Dennis Ritchie is god. :razz:

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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#27 Post by phenest »

edbarx wrote:
Relying on memory is more error prone than basic math, since basic math can't change.
But recalling basic math is using memory which is more error prone.
But math can be calculated, sort of like error correction.

Unlike man pages which cannot be calculated.
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edbarx
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#28 Post by edbarx »

Please, consider my post as playing with words. I do not mean to be a nuisance.
phenest wrote:But math can be calculated, sort of like error correction.
But, recalling the relevant math concepts requires memory. It is like a double edged sword: both memory and understanding are important.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
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cpoakes
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#29 Post by cpoakes »

dasein wrote:
cpoakes wrote:But that's why God created man pages. On second thought, it was Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson.
Dennis Ritchie is god. :razz:
Dennis Ritchie, Ken Thompson, Brian Kernighan - a holy trinity.

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edbarx
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#30 Post by edbarx »

Dennis Ritchie, Ken Thompson, Brian Kernighan - a holy trinity.
Brian Kerningham reminds me of a C language book in which I was shocked to read that a negative number like -1 is smaller than -10. When I mentioned this unacceptable error in a text book intended for post-secondary school students, I was presented with the illogical argument that the modulus of -10 is bigger than the modulus of -1 although the modulus does not define the sign of a number. Others argumented that even complex numbers, that is, numbers of the form a + ib, where a and b are real numbers and i is the imaginary square root of -1, have a magnetude! Imaginary numbers are NOT orderable which means magnetudes do not make sense logically. Finding the modulus of a complex number as it appears on an Argand diagram, is not finding its magnetude, but the length of the line that should appear on an Argand diagram.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

swirler
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Re: How often do you have to look up the command for somethi

#31 Post by swirler »

I've scheduled periodic backups (cronjobs) of my .bash_history file and grep through them when I can't remember a command I know I've used already.

I've also seen people appending some sort of tag to a command in order to recall it quickly, maybe something like

Code: Select all

ls -laF --group-directories-first #dir
the idea being that just typing #dir after hitting CTRL+R would bring up the command - of course it's kinda useless with a short command like the example above, but I find it useful with longer ones.

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