[SOLVED]The future of 686 PAE

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[SOLVED]The future of 686 PAE

Postby ticojohn » 2017-01-29 15:17

Try as I might, I have not been able to find anything concerning the future road map for 686 PAE support. I know that 686 PAE is supported in Stretch but am wondering for how much longer Debian will continue 686 PAE support.
Last edited by ticojohn on 2017-01-30 02:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-29 16:14

PAE is a kernel feature that can be turned on or off at users will. Debian cannot forbid you from turning it on.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby debiman » 2017-01-29 16:22

^ i don't think the question was meant like that.

i'm using debian stable on a 32 bit machine with pae support.
this basically means: only even older 32bit machines do NOT have pae support, and there's indeed fewer and fewer linux distros supporting them.

although i'm pretty sure debian is NOT one of those.

but some distros are phasing out 32 bit support completely (even for machines with pae support).

again i'm pretty sure debian is NOT one of those.


it's a valid question; i'd have to change server hardware if that ever happened...
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby ticojohn » 2017-01-29 17:42

debiman wrote:
it's a valid question; i'd have to change server hardware if that ever happened...


Yeah, that's pretty much where I was coming from. I am running a 32 bit system that has a Core2Duo processor (with PAE). Really not eager to spend the money to upgrade to a 64 bit system. Of course I suppose I never have to update the system as long as I am never concerned with security updates. I know that with LTS I should be okay for the next 2 or 3 years. After that who knows. I imagine that eventually Debian will phase out support for 686 PAE processors. Other distros have already begun doing so.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby acewiza » 2017-01-29 19:09

It'll be interesting to see how long the 32-bit stuff stays around. The hardware won't last forever. About once a year I go through the exercise of rebuilding an old server to troubleshoot and replace a failed drive or 2. There's only 3 of those systems left in my environment now.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-29 19:52

ticojohn wrote:
debiman wrote:
it's a valid question; i'd have to change server hardware if that ever happened...


Yeah, that's pretty much where I was coming from. I am running a 32 bit system that has a Core2Duo processor (with PAE). Really not eager to spend the money to upgrade to a 64 bit system. Of course I suppose I never have to update the system as long as I am never concerned with security updates. I know that with LTS I should be okay for the next 2 or 3 years. After that who knows. I imagine that eventually Debian will phase out support for 686 PAE processors. Other distros have already begun doing so.

Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit processor, what money are you going to spend to upgrade? 64-bit Debian is free.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby ticojohn » 2017-01-29 20:16

Segfault wrote:Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit processor, what money are you going to spend to upgrade? 64-bit Debian is free.

The Core2Duo that I have, an E6750, has 32 data bits and 36 address bits. Not sure how that makes it a 64 bit processor, other than it supports PAE. And NO, 64 bit Debian will NOT work on this processor. I tried!

Later Core 2 processors, such as the E8400 do have 64 bit instruction set. Don't know if they have physical 64 bit addressing. I probably should have been more specific in my post.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby ticojohn » 2017-01-29 20:24

ticojohn wrote:
Segfault wrote:Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit processor, what money are you going to spend to upgrade? 64-bit Debian is free.

The Core2Duo that I have, an E6750, has 32 data bits and 36 address bits. Not sure how that makes it a 64 bit processor, other than it supports PAE. And NO, 64 bit Debian will NOT work on this processor. I tried!

Yes, the Core 2 Duo has 64 bit instruction set but doesn't have physical 64 bit addressing. I probably should have been more specific in my post.

UPDATE: Well, I have just read a number of posts indicating that MAYBE I should be able to run 64 bit software, eg amd64, on this processor. I tried to run 64 bit jessie and it failed. Might it be for lack or ram (limited to 2 MB), or maybe the MMU on the motherboard, or maybe the BIOS? Don't know. Perhaps I could get a LGA775 motherboard that supports 8 GB of ram and see what happens. If it would work, I could use my existing processor and save the bucks for a new 64 bit processor.
Last edited by ticojohn on 2017-01-29 20:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-29 20:30

ticojohn wrote: And NO, 64 bit Debian will NOT work on this processor. I tried!

I consider this BS, you probably tried IA-64 Debian which definitely does not work on this processor.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby debiman » 2017-01-29 20:33

ticojohn wrote:The Core2Duo that I have, an E6750, has 32 data bits and 36 address bits. Not sure how that makes it a 64 bit processor, other than it supports PAE. And NO, 64 bit Debian will NOT work on this processor. I tried!

this sort of BS has been happening back in the days when 64bit was the latest thing.
it's not so long ago when you think about it.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby ticojohn » 2017-01-29 20:35

Segfault wrote:
ticojohn wrote: And NO, 64 bit Debian will NOT work on this processor. I tried!

I consider this BS, you probably tried IA-64 Debian which definitely does not work on this processor.

Sorry, but I tried amd64. But I am willing to try again. And I don't BS
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-29 20:37

Well, then try again. There is no such thing as 32 bit Core 2 processor.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby pylkko » 2017-01-29 20:37

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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby ticojohn » 2017-01-29 20:43

Segfault wrote:Well, then try again. There is no such thing as 32 bit Core 2 processor.

I am in the process of downloading debian-live-8.7.1-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso . Hope I can install to an 8GB USB stick (using dd). If not, I have a USB HDD, that was used for backups, that I could burn to. Will post results.
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Re: The future of 686 PAE

Postby ticojohn » 2017-01-29 21:23

Okay. Here is what I did:
1. Downloaded debian-live-8.7.1-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso
2. Verified MD5sum
3. Copied file to 8GB USB stick using dd
4. Booted machine and went in to BIOS
5. Verified that the USB stick was recognized as a bootable system and selected the device to boot first
6. Boot hangs. No messages.

So, the problem may be that since the BIOS recognizes a maximum of 4 GB, and the MMU also can only handle 4 GB, perhaps there is some incompatibility with amd64. Don't know, but this verifies my earlier statement that I tried and it didn't work. No BS. Don't know if a LGA775 socket motherboard capable of handling 8 GB would work or not. If anybody out there has a LGA775 socket motherboard, with a Core2Duo, running amd64 I would love to hear from them.
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