apps being loose for the future...

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apps being loose for the future...

Postby oui » 2017-03-14 14:43

Linux evolute and it is normal so, all things evolute, nothing stay unchanged.

But Linux did loose app's without other equivalent in all the Linux scope of applications.

... The family of WYSYG HTML editors! Which ones were WYSYG HTML editors? A lot of applications :roll: :

- I begin with Amaya because it was the official (test) browser and HTML editor of www , not because it was extremely diffused...
- kompozer, the stand alone application made using XUL runner
- seamonkey (it is actually the only one app being yet accessible from an external depository), also made using XUL runner, and including over a browser about equivalent with firefox (but better: for guy's having a lot of graphical jobs, seamonkey has the advantage from the easy to hide bars. The artist or graphic expert get so the maximal place on the browser screen for the graphic! It is really a great advantage. And people using frequently land maps etc. also... Debian did have the completely free equivalent of seamonkey all the time until just 2..3 years ago!
- bluegriffon and vu, both are about equivalent and did have the vocation to become the new kompozer.
- an extension to the powerfull editor kate from KDE, but after the change from KDE 3.5 to KDE 4. the energy to adapt it did get loose...

It is possible to produce HTML documents in LibreOffice, ok, but it is not really the goal of this package, the code is extrem heavy, long etc. The pages produced with it are really a lot slower as coded per hand, but it is very difficult to add code manually because of the complexity of the code made by LibreOffice. So is LibreOffice a possibility, of course, but a very bad choice!

I find terrible to see, that Linux abandonne totally such very important domains without to promote new applications for same. Linux become very poor at least :idea:

It is not the only one field where that did happen:

- voice applications are very rare although IBM did give the right to use the needing code a lot of years ago and the code did exist in adequate form!

- applications like xvidcap did become uninstallable because the needing libraries did disappear of the depositories.

I did continue to install kompozer and xvidcap in 16.04. It was yet possible and did work. Today, in 17.04, only a year later, it goes not any more :oops: . If we all accept those decisions of shrink the competence of Linux we will become very fast a Linux able of nothing at least any more :oops: .

A way would be to handle like you great friend M$: Including the needing libraries direct in the binaries instead to refer to them, it would be possible to continue to use a lot of excellent packages all more important as some new development steps... The interdependency of libraries and packages will be terrible in effect on Linux if the Linux world only reduces his scope of services because it is not convaincant any more for young developers!

Debian did make a wrong choice favoriting new libraries killing really each a productive tree of applications and encouraging some uncompatibilities like under the versions of GTK etc.

New developers seems to find now Android more attractive. Android for PC seems to become a solution that more and more gets the consideration of people.
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby arochester » 2017-03-14 17:34

I did continue to install kompozer and xvidcap in 16.04.
Today, in 17.04, only a year later, it goes not any more :oops:

This is not Debian, this is Ubuntu.

16.04 is an LTS (Long Term Support) release and will last until April 2021. 17.04 is a normal release and will only last until January 2018. You should have stuck with 16.04 if you wanted stability...

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
"Something to be aware of: Debian is a core or source distribution. This means there are many Debian-based distributions. THEY ARE NOT DEBIAN."
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby oui » 2017-03-14 18:13

Hi arochester

You have, I am sorry, an narrow-minded thinking and don't treat at all the thematic!

I write now and did write out Debian Stretch. Why Stretch? Because Jessie exact as 16.04 did produce errors on certain laptop: the mouse cursor let trace on the screen becoming more and more and at least totally dark at the places where you have to hit frequently on the mouse. So were Jessie and 16.04 never really operable on my PC :P . I did only show, that I know also Ubuntu (I absolutely not know Mint...). My installation from Stretch is intact: not experimentation at all. My installation from 17.04 is malformed by the trying to install KompoZer as well as Xvidcap. That is the reason why I did write "today in 17.04 ...".

Stretch works very well. No problem at all now excepted that there are not enough browsers proposed. Probably I would have to add more depositories, such from SID probably, to get more choice in this matter (the browser problem is that only a few browsers are able to work friendly with libflashplugin.so ...

Kind regards
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby arochester » 2017-03-14 20:18

If your first language is French (I take the idea from your username) there are also these Debian sites:
French
http://debian-facile.org - Debian-Facile - Debian related doc, news and forums.
http://www.debian-fr.org - Debian-fr - Debian related doc.
http://www.devloprog.org/admin - DevloProg - Debian admin related tips.
https://www.debian-fr.xyz - Debian-fr.xyz - Debian forum related doc. and tutorials.
"Something to be aware of: Debian is a core or source distribution. This means there are many Debian-based distributions. THEY ARE NOT DEBIAN."
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby millpond » 2017-03-16 14:20

The Debian repos will arbitrarily decide that if a software package has been unmaintained for too long, it will be expunged from the site, and deprecated from updating systems. This is particularly true if the core libs have not been updated.

A problem that can be potentially resolved by giving users fair warning, plus the option of an 'old' section along with detailed instructions for compiling the software as *static binaries* as well as proffering the binaries as well.
(Something like the opposite of a backport). There should be the options for grabbing sources off the archived repos, and compiling the static binaries from them.

Wysiwyg HTML writers fell out of use as soon as PHP sites took over, and CGI fell into disuse. Perl itself is deprecating CGI now.

Ideally, Linux should be multi-lib, and has made partial inroads with the Win64-Win32 ordeal.

For some of us this is going to be turning into an acute issue as we try to avoid Redhat as much as Redmond.
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby debiman » 2017-03-17 19:58

i think WYSIWIG html editors are on the way out because the world wide web is changing in a way that makes them (mostly) useless - think about responsive design!
CMS or site generators are usually the way to design web content.

but that doesn't mean WYSIWIG editors are dead.
seamonkey is alive.
so is bluefish and probably a few more.
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby millpond » 2017-03-28 00:22

It should be noted that there are two types of WYSIWYG/HTML editors.

The first type is the desktop apps. I like Bluefish because also supports PHP, which is really needed these days.

The second type is the online, or web site apps, which run off of server software such as Apache/Nginx.
I use ckeditor on my sites, as it does allow for PHP blocks - and has a rich set of plugins.

The CMS sites are specifically designed to *discourage* any coding by end users. Customization must be done through the software editors/utils. Drupal does use CKeditor, as an addon. CMS might be a passing fad, as they re typically rough on system resources with everything feeding into and off of the database. These days the trend is toward 'flat' data storage/persistance. Which should be faster and better - especially if one has experience with dealing with thousands of SQL queries!
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-03-28 06:02

“Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming."Brian Kernighan

Please read before posting How to report a problem
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby debiman » 2017-03-28 15:29

btw, bluefish is arguably not a wysiwyg editor; it has an option to "view in browser" though.

millpond wrote:The CMS sites are specifically designed to *discourage* any coding by end users. Customization must be done through the software editors/utils.

this might hold true for some of the big players like wordpress, but there's many more to choose from.
i use http://getgrav.org/ and it's designed around manual editing.
it does have an optional admin plugin now, but did not when i started using it.
i edit all files via ssh (sshfs to be precise), no online editors.

CMS might be a passing fad, as they re typically rough on system resources with everything feeding into and off of the database.

depends on your needs. i personally like to have responsive design (i.e. the site displays differently on different screen sizes) - that is one very good reason to use prefabricated solutions - and a blog-like interface, where, after setting the site up, i can quickly write articles as simple markdown documents.

above mentioned cms is flat-file, meaning it does not use a database application but stores everything in human-readable text files.
apart from that, the loading speed is in the caching.
anyhow, everybody who coded a website consisting of more than a single page will agree that a degree of automation is the only sane choice.
depending on your needs you can all code it in php by hand, or choose one of the many available CMSs.
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby millpond » 2017-03-29 05:43

Many thanks for that site. I have been looking for something like this for a while. I have an OSCommerce site that I need to redo, and this has just the theme I want. I will be testing this as soon as I get XAMPP installed in /opt as a local server. I had been looking into a rails/sinatra solution, but this may be simpler, particularly if I need to have the lil lady learn some basic site design.

If it can handle 10,000+ listings in its flat file, I already have a flat file with the database conversion :)
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Re: apps being loose for the future...

Postby sunrat » 2017-03-29 23:50

If your apps are loose you should tighten them.
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
Remember to BACKUP!
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