Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby n_hologram » 2017-10-30 19:16

pawRoot wrote:HARDWARE

Here's a workable point -- a lot of phone hardware is not open-source; skim the lineageos compatibility list (you'll also notice that many of those phones are outdated). The crux is that they work really well for Android, because the AOSP supplemented a lot of development. Not so for Linux. Yes, I have been waiting for Debian ARM on my phone, but then we're back to "who is going to develop it," and I'm not a developer. Whereas, with this phone, it might only be "1 device", but I implore you to ask yourself, research, and report your findings, even in light of the LineageOS-compatible phone list: why hasn't it been done yet?

If this singular is the next best, then in my opinion, so be it. I prefer that over nothing.

The rest of your argument reads like pandering for the belief that it will never become a commercial success like iOS or Android; I'm not sure how much bait I'm willing to take.
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby pawRoot » 2017-10-30 19:19

Ok just lets end the discussion here, im sorry but im not here to teach you logical thinking, have better things to do.

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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby n_hologram » 2017-10-30 19:48

I'm disappointed to have earned an ad hominem, but open-source doesn't mean "free as in free mints." Someone has to pay for something somehow: whether through work or through money. A true GNU/Linux system is currently unavailable on android devices -- and it has been unavailable since, well, Android (circa 2008).

A positive way of framing this is that I think you might stand a pretty good chance of beating-out the librem phone if you want to develop and crowdfund an Android alternative for Android devices.
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby pylkko » 2017-10-30 20:25

I never understood why this wasn't incentive to continue the project, though, as it seems most Linux/BSD systems are the result of understanding how to maximize old technology. When they announced this project, I initially foresaw people forking Ubuntu Phone/Touch into a (subjectively) "better" system, one geared towards specific interests and goals, rather than "Android: Ubuntu Edition"...alas.


The project is being continued by volunteers. But I guess the reason why there is no massive forking of the project is that it works on but a few phone models, which are out of production I might add, and there are many other AOSP based custom ROMs that are more popular and can use android apps.

Remember also that when people began using Linux on PC's, in the early days they had to make sacrifices. For example, maybe WiFi wad only proprietary, so they used an Ethernet card, or changed hardware parts to get it to work. It was still usable for some purpose, say a server. Also, on PC's much of the hardware initialization was done by OS independent BIOS chips.

This is not the case on phones, people are not willing to sacrifice the phone modem or GPS on a phone. Such a phone is no longer usable. Linux form arm has existed and could be used to boot on phones from the start. But that's about it, so what are you going to do with it? Also, these are SOC's. If you don't like the nonfree WIfI module, you can't just switch to another more FOSS friendly networking method or device.

The only way it can work is by having a special hardware platform for just that purpose. I believe that is what they are trying to get off the ground here.

pawRoot wrote:I would say Linux userbase is mostly people who don't want to spend money on software or "overpriced" hardware.
I don't see many people willing to buy such product for a high price with low quality hardware (comparing to companies like Samsung).
So yes, it might be successful project as long as successful for you means selling product to a very small group of people?


Yet they managed to get two million dollars for this already...

Also, with all likelyhood, if they manage to get the project off the ground, then future iterations will be less expensive.

Interestingly a lot of activity has been going on in the etnaviv (free gpu) project lately.
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby pawRoot » 2017-10-30 21:19

Yet they managed to get two million dollars for this already...


Some people spend more on a weekend in Vegas ;)
Actually there was ALOT of projects on kickstarter that raised millions just to die some time later.

Anyway my point is 2millions in "technology" is nothing, but i would like to have portable full version of Debian on my phone, i wont say no :D
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby makh » 2017-10-30 21:34

Hi

1. It is strange that Redhad, Suse, and Ubuntu have their desktop versions, but dont market them strongly. Ubuntu may have succeeded in the desktop/laptop, but theres some gap, like @n_hologram pointed: perhaps marketing in the Steve Jobs way.

2. Linux distros missed out on mobiles till now, for one or another reason, and android got it.

3. I do suppose Liberism should market on one point: security, others definitely dont give it yet. It would be more than linux user base, provided it is easy to use with basic apps, atleast.

4. "Linux idea" should be promoted in one more way: FSF and Debian Organizations should offer Certifications for code analysis, to be security qualified.

5. Purism should have offered a low priced stuff also.

---

Edit 1:

6. An open hardware manufacturers, especially for processors, better than intel & amd will hopefully benefit, some day.
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby pawRoot » 2017-10-30 21:43

perhaps marketing in the Steve Jobs way.


Marketing & leading, as i said previously linux world is lead by developers and not people with vision, which is the problem (IMO!).
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby RU55EL » 2017-10-30 22:03

makh wrote:[...]2. Linux distros missed out on mobiles till now, for one or another reason, and android got it.[...]


While Android is not Linux, but, it is based on the Linux kernel. "Linux" didn't miss out, Google used good sense and didn't try to "re-invent the wheel" when they could use something, such as Linux, without having to develop a system from zero.
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby debiman » 2017-10-31 06:01

...it all boils down to how you define "success" or "failure" ...
it seems some people in this thread think that every single small startup company in this world is a bunch of idiots, because they just don't get how big business works...
:roll:

anyhow, i'll just leave this here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=134456&p=655197&hilit=puri.sm#p654532

and
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=134456&hilit=puri.sm#p654479

and of course that whole other thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=134456
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Re: Will a Debian Mobile be a success?

Postby pylkko » 2017-10-31 18:56

pawRoot wrote:
Yet they managed to get two million dollars for this already...


Some people spend more on a weekend in Vegas ;)
Actually there was ALOT of projects on kickstarter that raised millions just to die some time later.

Anyway my point is 2millions in "technology" is nothing, but i would like to have portable full version of Debian on my phone, i wont say no :D


Can you give any examples of those projects?
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