Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby pylkko » 2017-11-22 18:57

alan stone wrote:Intel crawling out of the closet, dragging its feet...

Intel has released a downloadable detection tool which will analyze your system for the vulnerabilities identified & links to system manufacturer pages concerning the issue. See here.

EDIT: just noticed this information was published in the article provided through the previous post. Anyway, above is the straight link to Intel's burp. Who knows which shenaningans are in this patch. :roll:



OK. So anybody still think that this management engine thing isn't 'bad'?
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby sunrat » 2017-11-22 22:30

pylkko wrote:OK. So anybody still think that this management engine thing isn't 'bad'?

Sounds bad but so is Coca-Cola and land mines. The world goes on, somehow.
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby pylkko » 2017-11-23 07:16

Some people opinioned that it isn't a security risk. I'm just saying that if Intel thinks it is, then I'm not convinced it isn't. No comment on the world or coca cola.
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby fmp » 2017-11-24 01:10

it can be neutralized, depending on your hardware: https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner

i have also seen people suggest not to use the onboard pci wifi, as somehow the me is programmed to communicate only through the pci. anecdotally, a usb dongle for wifi would be a superior replacement.
(don't know how true that is, I've not tested the theory myself as I don't fully understand the inner workings of the me [just enough to know i don't want it] & I've only seen it mentioned once or twice.. you'd think if such were viable it would be widely spread)

AMD also have their own version of me: https://libreboot.org/faq.html#amdpsp so its inescapable, for now (short of building your own).

purism have also been working to neuter the me: https://puri.sm/learn/avoiding-intel-amt/ (though from my understanding, they're just running the me_cleaner tool on their hardware)
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby ticojohn » 2017-11-24 18:46

Just checked my motherboard specs (GA-H81M-H rev 2.1) and it indicated that my motherboard does not use vPro, which in part is Active Management Technology. From what I have read, if AMT is not incorporated then the ME vulnerability is low to non-existent. Anybody have thoughts on that assumption?
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby makh » 2017-11-24 21:11

Hi
Intel seems to have launched their utility. But I want to know that if Debian Developers are going to provide any such utilities, in any way, now or in coming days...?
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby dotlj » 2017-11-25 09:01

Intel SA 00086 Detection Tool
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/27150

The vulnerability only affects more recent Intel procesors. Some manufacturers have started producing updates.
[url]
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/h ... rity-bugs/[/url]

Most of my machines are not affected as the use older third generation Intel processors, only 6th, 7th and 8th generation Intel Core Processor Family and some other recent processors are affected by this vulnerability.
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby makh » 2017-11-25 11:39

dotlj wrote:...The vulnerability only affects more recent Intel procesors. Some manufacturers have started producing updates...

I am not convinced of this part... :!:
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby ticojohn » 2017-11-25 15:47

makh wrote:
dotlj wrote:...The vulnerability only affects more recent Intel processors. Some manufacturers have started producing updates...

I am not convinced of this part... :!:

From what I have read it seems to be most dependent on whether the motherboard/system manufacturer implemented the vPro technology in the bios. Some MB's, like mine, have the MEI chipset but vPro was not implemented in the bios. An easy check as to whether your board is susceptible might be to look at the board specs and see if vPro is implemented. No test software required.

UPDATE: Just to verify my assumption I downloaded the referenced test program from Intel. I have two computers. One is a Gigabyte GA H81M-H rev 2.1, the other is and Intel NUC5i5RYH. Specifications for both systems indicate that the vPro technology is not implemented. I ran the test on both systems and the results for both indicate that the system is not vulnerable. So, either they really aren't vulnerable or the test is lying. Given the grief that Intel is getting over this issue I would like to believe that they have not created a test that gives false results. Besides, the article that I read saying that the key is whether vPro is implemented was from a respected non-intel source. Take it as you will.
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby n_hologram » 2017-12-01 19:04

sunrat wrote:
pylkko wrote:OK. So anybody still think that this management engine thing isn't 'bad'?

Sounds bad but so is Coca-Cola and land mines. The world goes on, somehow.

A classic "apples-to-landmines" comparison.
The better comparison is if coffee, tea, and juice all started shipping with carbonated water and high-fructose corn syrup.
Bottled water would be an alternative, but it contains its own proprietary substances that are embedded into the water molecules.
Then you might say, "well I could just replace fluids with raspberry pies", but there are small landmines that are set to self-destruct based on an unexplored, proprietary algorithm.
...what were we originally talking about again?

fwiw, I ran me_cleaner on a spare laptop and it worked fine.
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-03 21:29

This year hasn't started well for Intel. Another serious flaw, now even worse:
https://www.neowin.net/news/security-fl ... rmance-hit

Upstream has already updated to Linux 4.14.11 that contains the fix and Microsoft will issue a patch for Windows 10 in the next 24 hours. Debian when?
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2018-01-03 21:50

Wheelerof4te wrote:Debian when?
Same as always - when it's ready.
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby alan stone » 2018-01-04 08:32

Wheelerof4te wrote:This year hasn't started well for Intel. Another serious flaw, now even worse:
https://www.neowin.net/news/security-fl ... rmance-hit

Operating as designed: part 1, part 2. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Anyone knows a place where to buy stocks of pitchforks, torches, boiled rope and gallows? :mrgreen:
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby kopper » 2018-01-04 10:23

Wheelerof4te wrote:Upstream has already updated to Linux 4.14.11 that contains the fix and Microsoft will issue a patch for Windows 10 in the next 24 hours. Debian when?


Could anyone point out an efficient tools to benchmark CPU performance? There's been discussion about performance decrease of 2% - 30% depending on what kind of tasks are run. I'd like to check how the patch affects in my case. I'm not running anything that critical myself, but I guess many users here could benefit from the same information.

So far I've come up with sysbench, but any other suggestions are highly appreciated.
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Re: Debian Security ~ Intels' ME and likewise

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-04 11:06

^Average non-gamer users won't notice much difference in performance. Opening documents, doing online work, playing Youtube and movies and listening to music are not so CPU sensitive tasks.
The most affected will be gamers and large-scale businesses that rely on servers. Since a lot of people are gamers anyway, expect an otcry even from casual users.

EDIT:
This just occured to me. How will debian apply the update when the complete fix will require an update of (as per Debian) non-free intel microcode? At least, Red Hat applied it to their firmware package.
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