Debian direct derivates vs Rebuilt derivates.
Posted: 2017-12-16 12:04
I can see, for over years now, good people from this forum and others being such unhelpful because "It's not Debian" and using the Don't break Debian to support their complete laziness into helping people.
I've been a Debian user since it's first versions, when you had to format and install it over text interface, and this one thing always annoyed me. As I gain knowledge of Debian and began understanding it's flavors, life cycle, directives and so on, I noticed that people are misunderstanding the Derivate word meaning, making it into one and only signification, and turning what should be a much bigger and better community than the other OSes are.
The enemy (you know who pays propaganda for killing linux reputation...) wants us divided, so it's easier to beat us.
First let's make it clear that the "Pure Debian" concept is also misunderstood, since for being Pure, one shall not install any non-free package, so forget about drivers, wifi and whatsoever uses proprietary drivers and libraries (notice that what is left is indeed the only one pure debian).
"...A common, but not unique pattern for derivatives is that of reusing/rebuilding most of the official Debian packages and adding some custom packages of their own...."
https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives
So, let's talk abou a Taboo: A direct derivation from Debian, witch uses Debian main packages and repository, is Debian on it's root, and probaly is just programs and DE's that differ that distro from Debian, so came on, If you take a "pure debian" iso, put on a driver, you're not pure debian anymore, put on anything out of Debian free repository (yes, including the non-free Debian repository) than is not "pure debian" anymore, than, that direct derivation, is not "Pure Debian" also, and it's ok!
The problem start when people asks help for a direct derivate Debian distro and people start shouting that it's not Debian.
If one person buy one Ferrari car, and than put a Wolksvagen multimedia central on it (whatever), put on Pioneer Bass Speakers, put LCD screens into the dash, etc.. than that Ferrari is not a Ferrari anymore?? (direct derivates, like SparkyLinux) Also you know that if your multimedia central burns, is not Ferrari fault right?
It's totally different like SsangYoung cars, made by china with a Mercedes engine, is that a Mercedes? NOO! Only uses the engine of it (Based derivation, like ubuntu), but have it's own maker. Than you know that if something else than the engine fails, it's not Mercedes fault, right?
So let's contextualize the Don't break Debian:
https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
"...The reason things can break is because the software packaged for one Debian release is built to be compatible with the rest of the software for that release. For example, installing packages from buster on a stretch system could also install newer versions of core libraries including libc6. This results in a system that is not testing or stable but a broken mix of the two...."
Explaining: If your direct derivation distro OR Debian install (free or non-free) is based on stable, don't try to install on it a testing/unstable repository software, it'll break. Just keep the same flavor, like SparkyLinux, witch have all three flavors.
The most important part, witch those "pure debian" paladins don't read, is:
"...Don't blindly follow bad advice...
...It's better to take the time to figure out the correct way to do something first than spending even more time fixing a broken system later. You would not let some random stranger feed your baby; do not execute commands without first understanding what they do...."
So they don't read, do not understand completely how your derivation IS DEBIAN on it's root and stay closed mind into saying you should be "Pure Debian" before asking help on the Debian forum...
Guys, please, evolve, lets make the other OSes payed support sound like crap because we can!
I've been a Debian user since it's first versions, when you had to format and install it over text interface, and this one thing always annoyed me. As I gain knowledge of Debian and began understanding it's flavors, life cycle, directives and so on, I noticed that people are misunderstanding the Derivate word meaning, making it into one and only signification, and turning what should be a much bigger and better community than the other OSes are.
The enemy (you know who pays propaganda for killing linux reputation...) wants us divided, so it's easier to beat us.
First let's make it clear that the "Pure Debian" concept is also misunderstood, since for being Pure, one shall not install any non-free package, so forget about drivers, wifi and whatsoever uses proprietary drivers and libraries (notice that what is left is indeed the only one pure debian).
"...A common, but not unique pattern for derivatives is that of reusing/rebuilding most of the official Debian packages and adding some custom packages of their own...."
https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives
So, let's talk abou a Taboo: A direct derivation from Debian, witch uses Debian main packages and repository, is Debian on it's root, and probaly is just programs and DE's that differ that distro from Debian, so came on, If you take a "pure debian" iso, put on a driver, you're not pure debian anymore, put on anything out of Debian free repository (yes, including the non-free Debian repository) than is not "pure debian" anymore, than, that direct derivation, is not "Pure Debian" also, and it's ok!
The problem start when people asks help for a direct derivate Debian distro and people start shouting that it's not Debian.
If one person buy one Ferrari car, and than put a Wolksvagen multimedia central on it (whatever), put on Pioneer Bass Speakers, put LCD screens into the dash, etc.. than that Ferrari is not a Ferrari anymore?? (direct derivates, like SparkyLinux) Also you know that if your multimedia central burns, is not Ferrari fault right?
It's totally different like SsangYoung cars, made by china with a Mercedes engine, is that a Mercedes? NOO! Only uses the engine of it (Based derivation, like ubuntu), but have it's own maker. Than you know that if something else than the engine fails, it's not Mercedes fault, right?
So let's contextualize the Don't break Debian:
https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
"...The reason things can break is because the software packaged for one Debian release is built to be compatible with the rest of the software for that release. For example, installing packages from buster on a stretch system could also install newer versions of core libraries including libc6. This results in a system that is not testing or stable but a broken mix of the two...."
Explaining: If your direct derivation distro OR Debian install (free or non-free) is based on stable, don't try to install on it a testing/unstable repository software, it'll break. Just keep the same flavor, like SparkyLinux, witch have all three flavors.
The most important part, witch those "pure debian" paladins don't read, is:
"...Don't blindly follow bad advice...
...It's better to take the time to figure out the correct way to do something first than spending even more time fixing a broken system later. You would not let some random stranger feed your baby; do not execute commands without first understanding what they do...."
So they don't read, do not understand completely how your derivation IS DEBIAN on it's root and stay closed mind into saying you should be "Pure Debian" before asking help on the Debian forum...
Guys, please, evolve, lets make the other OSes payed support sound like crap because we can!