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Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

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makh
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Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#1 Post by makh »

Hi

Wrt:
https://itsfoss.com/visio-alternatives- ... 2018-01-05

Note:
1. This point is not related to WMs or their applications, extensions etc
2. This point is more related to basic Desktop applications.
1. I dont pretty much understand why do we have so many alternates to nautilus. Maximum 3 developed for standard DEs should have been enough.
2. Why there are more than a dozen desktop environments, each trying to give icons and interface, for the very same purpose. Again Cinnamon/Xfce, KDE and Gnome were more than enough.
3. I like Kolourpaint more than others, personally. But still there may be some lags in it, but having gpaint, and all others for same single task.
4. So many panel applications/docks...
5. Cd/Dvd Burning: k3b is my choice, but there are so many others, for each desktop!
6. Audio/Music players, more than many, competing each other.
7. Ending the basic default list here. (others: terminals, archiving tools, office, web browsers, task manager, calender, image viewers, video players)

Why not just have 3/4 main projects, just like Distros: Debian, Fedora, LFS, and rest if the developers are interested to branch them from the original projects, as derived Distros, but still linked to the main project, and if there is positive development in the downstream, then all the upstream can also benefit from it. Though I do assume, it doesnt exist, yet.

Still some good alternates (2 or 3 only) ... seem missing, in Linux world, to:
1. xsane
2. Hplip
3. etc

And again nothing solid exists against, wrt same inter collaboration between developers:
1. AutoCAD
2. Some Adobe Products
3. etc


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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#2 Post by Dai_trying »

I think the main reason we have so many options for some desktops/applications is the freedom of choice, we (Linux users) are not limited to what one company/OS wants us to use, also there are some systems where one particular package will work better with lower resources than the most commonly used one which might be better on a newer higher spec machines. We have the choice of either installing or not installing any of the thousands of packages available, in my opinion it is one of the benefits of using Debian (and its derivatives), the choices are (almost) unlimited.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#3 Post by Seventh »

The old saying rings true here, there is always more than one way to skin a rabbit, but in all essence you are still skinning a rabbit. I think microsoft like to skin the rabbit keep the skin and try to make another rabbit with it.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#4 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

makh wrote:I dont pretty much understand why do we have so many alternates
Image
https://xkcd.com/927/
deadbang

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#5 Post by Wheelerof4te »

This is one horse beaten to death with small spoons. It's hard to develop standards when anyone can make a standard for himself. Certain bigger communities will make a bigger, widely used "standard". Example GNOME. You have a choice which standard to use.

Related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#6 Post by arochester »

Why do we have so many different cars? Different specs, different styles, different colours?

Why doesn't everyone just drive a Trabant? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#7 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

I'm going to nip this one in the bud before it gets started:

Is Linux about choice?

:twisted:
deadbang

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#8 Post by Wheelerof4te »

^This post contradicts your previous one with a comic...

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#9 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Wheelerof4te wrote:^This post contradicts your previous one
Quite the contrary, my contemplative friend — the old "Choice" link is a rant against the motives which are illustrated in the XKCD comic, IMO.

Both authors seem to be of the opinion that more convergence would be a Good Thing™, no?

Linux suffers badly from fragmentation and feature-creep but to some these are considered advantageous "features" :roll:
deadbang

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#10 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Ok, I agree. It was a matter of perspective.
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Linux suffers badly from fragmentation and feature-creep but to some these are considered advantageous "features"
Sadly, very much true. There is no one single flag to unite open-source community, and that is most unfortunate.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#11 Post by makh »

Interesting to note, windows and MacOS base system is fixed by single and default applications, a few default I may have skipped. But still, the desktop users are far more than for Linux or Debian or Redhat or others, even by summing them all upto Linux Desktop Users.
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#12 Post by Innovate »

Take a hint: Do you really want linux only have gnome/unity desktop as choice? :mrgreen:
Why so many DE? repeat my hint again as loop.

Why so many kinds of food?
Take a hint: do you want to eat only fried egg every day unable to eat other kinds of foods? :twisted:
Why so many kinds food? repeat my hint again as loop.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#13 Post by debiman »

makh wrote:Interesting to note, windows and MacOS base system is fixed by single and default applications, a few default I may have skipped.
yes, because they are owned and centralised.
i will always prefer something community-driven, even if it means things are more messy.
But still, the desktop users are far more than for Linux or Debian or Redhat or others, even by summing them all upto Linux Desktop Users.
yes, we know.
thanks for pointing it out again.
maybe you really shoudln't be using any form of Linux at all, since it is so fundamentally flawed? imagine how much happier you would be?

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#14 Post by makh »

Innovate wrote:Take a hint: Do you really want linux only have gnome/unity desktop as choice? :mrgreen:
Why so many DE? repeat my hint again as loop.

Why so many kinds of food?
Take a hint: do you want to eat only fried egg every day unable to eat other kinds of foods? :twisted:
Why so many kinds food? repeat my hint again as loop.
Did you really read my first post or are the usual troll?

@ Debuman:
you seem to be off topic... why? I really dont know...
...
Windows & MacOS do not stop you from installing anything you want to. I meant that the base system is small... this makes their Desktops more practical for average users, for many tasks.
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#15 Post by Wheelerof4te »

makh wrote:I meant that the base system is small...
Windows 10 base install is around 25-30 GB, while typical GNOME install is about 7-8 GB. Even less for other DEs. I agree that Innovate makes a strawman's argument. That too is a big problem in Linux community. Too many strawmen, too little developer cohesion.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#16 Post by jmgibson1981 »

My take on this issue is similar to my World of Warcraft experience (go ahead and laugh, I am.)

Everyone wanted to be a guild leader. Problem, now we had 1000 tiny guilds that couldn't do anything. End result, server progress was pathetic.

Similarly with software, everyone wants to have their own software. They wrote it. Good for them, now we have a truckload of text editors (or insert favorite app here) and they all do exactly the same thing with no real innovation.

Sadly people keep reinventing the wheel instead of pooling resources. I'm not advocating for the Windows way but I do believe there is such a thing as to much choice. This is one of the things that made my open source transition difficult. To this day I still flip flop de / wm regularly because I can't decide. Is that a good thing? Maybe, maybe not. Everyone loves free choice, it's what linux is built on. But to much of that causes more problems than it helps in my opinion.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#17 Post by makh »

jmgibson1981 wrote:My take on this issue is...
Hi
Good point, ... made me think something "more missing":

1. Too much resources wastage on more than perhaps thousands of repositories and servers for same one "text editor" say. Why waste so many resources.? :idea:

2. It seems better, like in android (perhaps this is coming via flatpak), to launch a good product which gets installed in all 4 versions of debian: Stable, Old Stable, Testing, Sid. It will save a lot on repositories and servers. The googleplay doesnt differentiate, not even the other downloaded softwares, force bind to a single kernel or android version. :!: But this may apply to rolling distros only, not to stable.

3. I didnt wanted to add here: but Ubuntu Desktop blew it up, and forced me to Debian, I remember the transition: Ubuntu 8.04 to Debian Squeeze. That project was suppose to be Desktop leader in Linux world, ... but I wont add more. :roll:

4. The over head resources, should now be instead put on to work on better drivers and closed sourced applications, which dont have good alternates. And to make the existing ones get par the current.

5. The "distro war on desktops" should be less, now, rather focus on 4 or 5 main distros. Else, perhaps Android or other newcomer may "out-run" both MacOS and Windows.


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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#18 Post by oswaldkelso »

makh wrote:Hi

Wrt:
https://itsfoss.com/visio-alternatives- ... 2018-01-05

Note:
1. This point is not related to WMs or their applications, extensions etc
2. This point is more related to basic Desktop applications.
Yes it does! Do you thin users of window managers don't use desktop applications?
1. I dont pretty much understand why do we have so many alternates to nautilus. Maximum 3 developed for standard DEs should have been enough.
Says a lot. You sound like an Apple or Microsoft user that has never experienced anything other than the finder or explorer
2. Why there are more than a dozen desktop environments, each trying to give icons and interface, for the very same purpose. Again Cinnamon/Xfce, KDE and Gnome were more than enough.
Same again. Get out more. But from my experience all those mentioned above apart from Xfce are either, crap, bloated and slow or all of those.
3. I like Kolourpaint more than others, personally. But still there may be some lags in it, but having gpaint, and all others for same single task.
If Kolorpaint lags on your system you have an issue somewhere.
4. So many panel applications/docks...
That all offer different options or ways of configuring.
5. Cd/Dvd Burning: k3b is my choice, but there are so many others, for each desktop!
TkDVD is mine and I'm always right
6. Audio/Music players, more than many, competing each other.
Competing? Or just made as their programmers think best.
7. Ending the basic default list here. (others: terminals, archiving tools, office, web browsers, task manager, calender, image viewers, video players)
Good because this whole idea is a load of tosh.
Why not just have 3/4 main projects, just like Distros: Debian, Fedora, LFS, and rest if the developers are interested to branch them from the original projects, as derived Distros, but still linked to the main project, and if there is positive development in the downstream, then all the upstream can also benefit from it. Though I do assume, it doesnt exist, yet.
Why not have Gentoo, Gobo and Dragora
Still some good alternates (2 or 3 only) ... seem missing, in Linux world, to:
1. xsane
2. Hplip
3. etc
I suggest you write them then or pay someone else to.
And again nothing solid exists against, wrt same inter collaboration between developers:
1. AutoCAD
2. Some Adobe Products
3. etc
As above write it or I suggest you use windows if you don't want to. Why would anyone with half a brain cell WANT to contaminate their free operating system with SLAVEWARE

8<------------8<--------------8<------------8<--------------8<------------8<--------------8<------------8<--------------
makh wrote:
jmgibson1981 wrote:My take on this issue is...
Hi
Good point, ... made me think something "more missing":
Rubbish point actually that has nothing to do with free software redistribution
1. Too much resources wastage on more than perhaps thousands of repositories and servers for same one "text editor" say. Why waste so many resources.? :idea:
Wow thousands of repositories in a world of millions if no billions of software users. I take it you do realise that most of these same "text editors" are binary packages in different forms. dmg, exe, tlz, deb, rpm etc,,, and that some also need to host the source files as part of the licence agreement.
2. It seems better, like in android (perhaps this is coming via flatpak), to launch a good product which gets installed in all 4 versions of debian: Stable, Old Stable, Testing, Sid. It will save a lot on repositories and servers. The googleplay doesnt differentiate, not even the other downloaded softwares, force bind to a single kernel or android version. :!: But this may apply to rolling distros only, not to stable.
Better like in Android! :lol: flatpak another of the freedesktop.org (we are not a standards body just act like one) lock downs.
3. I didnt wanted to add here: but Ubuntu Desktop blew it up, and forced me to Debian, I remember the transition: Ubuntu 8.04 to Debian Squeeze. That project was suppose to be Desktop leader in Linux world, ... but I wont add more. :roll:
No one forced you to Debian. It's not like you didn't have CHOICE.
4. The over head resources, should now be instead put on to work on better drivers and closed sourced applications, which dont have good alternates. And to make the existing ones get par the current.
Does not compute.
5. The "distro war on desktops" should be less, now, rather focus on 4 or 5 main distros. Else, perhaps Android or other newcomer may "out-run" both MacOS and Windows.
A big Bollox to that. In short I've not read such a load of tosh in this forum for a long while (ignoring you know who who always writes tosh) .
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#19 Post by GarryRicketson »

Any way I am glad we have lot's of choices, sadly it appears in this thread a couple of insignificant people would like to restrict us to only using what they think we should be using.
All though I use many desktop applications, I use them in a WM manager environment.
It would really be unfortunate if we were all restricted to only be allowed to use
MS windows, or Gnome/unity, fortunately the promoters of this kind of propaganda, sometimes trying to tell us we can not have a usable system, if we do not use Gnome or Kde, etc,.... blah, they have no clue as to what they are talking about, and it shows.
Like wise, fortunately we have many very usable alternatives to systemd , and the distros that have taken that route,... but I suppose that is another topic.
But also, fortunately it is available as well for those that prefer it.
Yes, it is good to have 20 or more applications that can perform a task, each app , is still unique and depending on many other factors, with a wide range of choices , one can find and use the choice that is best for their unique situation.
If and when I can not find a application that is perfect for ME, then it is time to
develop yet another.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#20 Post by ticojohn »

Diversity is great. Without it we would be nothing more than a bunch of workers in a hive.
I am not irrational, I'm just quantum probabilistic.

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