Year of the Linux Desktop is near

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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-02-06 20:04

Wheelerof4te wrote:You still have BSD's and Slackware if tinkering with the OS rather than using it to do any work is your thing

Is that why Netflix proudly boast of their FreeBSD server capabilities that far exceed anything Linux can manage?

Or why Microsoft now fund OpenBSD for the use of their LibreSSL software in Windows?

Your comments are offensive and ignorant, please stop.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby acewiza » 2018-02-06 20:08

HuangLao wrote:Think supercomputers, satellites, military, government, cellphones, IOT (internet of things or internet of threats, you choose), etc...

Exactly. Harbor no illusions about Linux' role where alot of the real computing work is getting done.
Nobody would ever ask questions If everyone possessed encyclopedic knowledge of the man pages.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby makh » 2018-02-11 05:40

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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-02-11 11:27

^ Is there an echo in here? :roll:
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby alan stone » 2018-02-12 08:20

Wheelerof4te wrote:^You still have BSD's and Slackware if tinkering with the OS rather than using it to do any work is your thing.

This fired my Bull Shit Detector. :mrgreen:

Back to tinkering my BSD setup...
Last edited by alan stone on 2018-02-12 13:29, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby Lysander » 2018-02-12 12:28

Wheelerof4te wrote:^You still have BSD's and Slackware if tinkering with the OS rather than using it to do any work is your thing.


I think this may come down to relative interpretations of the words 'simple' and 'tinkering'. 'Simple' can either mean easy to use, or, in the context of *nix, it can mean single-processed. Slackware is not easy to use, but it does support a simple paradigm of one process > one action [or output].

'Tinkering', on the other hand, has the implication of 'needlessly tweaking' or 'unnecessary voluntary tweaking' for minor performance benefits in the face of production [which is what you seem to be referring to]. However, 'tinkering' could also [or either] refer to 'necessary revisions on a rolling distro' if, e.g. an updated package breaks another.

In the case of an OS like Slackware, which has a stable branch, tinkering, by the first definition, is voluntary. When you have it set up as you want, it will leave you alone. You can choose when to update. There is no hindrance to productivity. If you are running a rolling distro like Arch, then 'necessary revisions' are more likely to be a timesink.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Your comments are offensive and ignorant, please stop.


They do show a level of ignorance but there are two types of ignorance - one is wanton and one is not. If Wheeler realises the impact of his comments and chooses to adapt them, then all the better. I think this would be preferable course of action rather than skipping to another forum, whereby there is still potential to cause offence. On the other hand, asking someone to desist because of offence caused does not solve all related issues in itself - there are [at least] two solutions - the 'offender' learning from experience or both parties accepting differences/perspectives. Here we are dealing with facts rather than opinions so, once again, the former course would theoretically be preferable.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-02-12 19:49

Lysander wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Your comments are offensive and ignorant, please stop.

To clarify: I meant that the OP should stop the ignorant comments, their assistance in support threads is always welcome.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby Luna Moon » 2018-02-19 12:21

I guess we will see if this opportunity will make Linux more popular for people, who are being pushed away from windows or not. I doubt it, but only future can tell.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby Lysander » 2018-02-19 20:11

Luna Moon wrote:I guess we will see if this opportunity will make Linux more popular for people, who are being pushed away from windows or not. I doubt it, but only future can tell.


Well, the telemetry employed by W10 did push some people over to Linux. As did the adoption of Steam for some others. However, market share appears to have dropped on the desktop in recent months. There was a period in the summer where it flirted with 3% but now it's back down. Maybe some people had time to experiment over the holidays only to revert to Windows.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby debiman » 2018-02-20 09:12

Luna Moon wrote:I guess we will see if this opportunity will make Linux more popular for people, who are being pushed away from windows or not. I doubt it, but only future can tell.

i concur with your doubts.
linux is plenty popular already, and its use cases just grow and grow.
no wonder, who wouldn't want to have a free & secure OS on their $DEVICE.
there is absolutely no benefit from "recruiting ex-windows users" or some such except for those who actually make money with linux.
now they, of course, would like you to believe that you have a moral obligation to spread the good word, be polite to newbies, yada yada, all to "Make Linux Better" - but imo it's wrong. we need more knowledgeable & inspired users/developers/co-ordinators, not more newbs and forum nannies.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying "newbs get out" - no, i'm saying there's a certain threshold to using linux, and that you just have to push through yourself. there's no point in "masking" the configuration behind a "userfriendly" gui & overly-polite forums, only to get more users - more broken software - more misunderstanding - more problems.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby steve_v » 2018-02-20 09:46

debiman wrote:there is absolutely no benefit from "recruiting ex-windows users" or some such
Unless those users are motivated to learn, rather than whine about needing to use the command-line from time to time or not having shiny app [x] that nobody has written.
I've had people I'm trying to help get abusive because I suggested running something in a terminal or changing a config file, nobody needs this.

debiman wrote:there's no point in "masking" the configuration behind a "userfriendly" gui & overly-polite forums, only to get more users - more broken software - more misunderstanding - more problems.
I've been saying it from day one.
Running GNU/Linux on the desktop, with a GUI, that's just is fine. And it works very well. Hiding the OS behind a shiny GUI and promoting it as "simple" and "newb friendly" just discourages users form learning how their machine actually works.
GNU/Linux is built and improved upon by its community, because a large portion of that community understands the plumbing. Hide the gearbox, and soon nobody will know how to drive a manual.

IMO, this is the same reason that while nearly everyone has a computer of some kind, very few can even code "hello world".
On a C64, you couldn't do anything without writing some rudimentary code, even if it was simply to load another file. On a modern Windows desktop you don't have a compiler installed by default, or even a usable command interpreter. WTH happened to MS-BASIC anyway?
Please, let's not make "desktop linux" like this too. Keep the gearbox where people can see it and mess with it.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby bw123 » 2018-02-20 10:09

steve_v wrote:
WTH happened to MS-BASIC anyway?


You probably already know, but the way I remember it, the GUI became the OS, basically making the shell irrelevant sometime around 95-98. Basic wasn't ever a real dev tool, it was a sample to get people interested in programming. The tools to build 'real' apps were only available if you paid for them, some were very expensive, and very complicated. Object oriented libs and other dev tools were for making money, most hobbyists just couldn't afford the investment. I don't know how it works now.

steve_v wrote:
Please, let's not make "desktop linux" like this too. Keep the gearbox where people can see it and mess with it.


Might be too late? How many lines of code would it take to create a gtk window and output 'hello world' to it?
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby steve_v » 2018-02-20 10:27

bw123 wrote:How many lines of code would it take to create a gtk window and output 'hello world' to it?
Dunno, I don't use GTK.
With QT: far too many, I might count one day. With Xlib: 17. To a text console, 5.

My point is that most linux distros still come with a compiler, documentation, a scriptable command interpreter, and human-readable configuration. The also tend to come with enough rough edges that a user might stumble onto these things. :P
Aside, the not-human-readable startup process is one of the things I don't like about systemd... and various other recent developments.
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby sunrat » 2018-02-20 21:44

Don't know about gtk either but I am l33t h4x0r coder! And only a single line. ;)
Code: Select all
$ notify-send 'hello world'
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Postby nikobit » 2018-02-21 09:48

Don't know about gtk either but I am l33t h4x0r coder!

I do possess absolute zero knowledge in coding. But due to frequent Debian/GNU use even me is able to shorten your one line to less characters.
Code: Select all
$ echo 'hello world'
. My point is someone has to do coding. Others have to make them popular. For example, no one could realize how brilliant Steve Wozniak is unless Jobs would promote their ideas with powerful enthusiasm. Same thing about Linux/GNU/Debian. I have no clue how to code my way out of stuck 'full system upgrade' but have enough desire and wish to advertise my ancient 'maemo' based Nokia N9 to all who is curious to ask: "What is this thing of yours and what OS is on it?". Sometimes one have to promote things the best way possible.
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