Debian User Forums

dcihon wrote:Where will the Linux users come from then.

Preferably from those with enough curiosity to seek out alternative operating systems themselves, and enough knowledge and/or willingness to learn that they don't expect a windoze clone. No need for this "push more users to linux" malarkey, the best will come of their own accord. The click-and-droolers can keep windows.

Most people I talk to that are even very knowledgeable when it comes to computers have never even heard of Linux.
They would say what is Linux? Then let them try to spell it.
They may have heard of Ubuntu but don't even know that it is Linux.

I don't think so. The year of the Linux Desktop will be a year when you walk into any computer retailer and see computers running Linux, macOS and Windows. Currently most retailers push Windows or macOS, or both.
The OP referred to Windows 10 S and Windows 10 Pro. All that is about is a crippled version of Windows which encourages people to pay more money for an upgrade to the so called Pro version. Of course, had they wiped Windows 10 S and installed Debian, they would have a Pro OS for no extra cost.

In many ways Linux has been running nicely on Desktops and Laptops for years, it is only that Microsoft is able to exert pressure on manufacturers like Dell, HP and all of the others to put a recommendation for Windows and to offer most of their hardware with WIndows as the only option. The year of the Linux Desktop will be when more manufacturers promote Linux as a real alternative. The only problem is the huge variety of distros and support for each distro. They could promote one of the enterprize versions but that is unlikely. The easy way out for most retailers is to stay with Windows and macOS with support provided by M$ and Apple.

dotlj wrote:In many ways Linux has been running nicely on Desktops and Laptops for years

My sole desktop since 1999. Though actually owning a laptop came later.
As you say, it's not that it doesn't work, but that OEMs preinstall a commercial OS that limits exposure. I don't mind that, and I don't see a viable way to change it either.
IME, businesses doesn't like products that they have no control over, and especially those that say "GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY" on login. They like people to yell at when things go sideways, as they have customers to appease.
Standardising Linux won't change that, as much as redhat wants it to, it'll just make it more boring.

If Linux came preinstalled on the majority of store-bought machines, forums like this would be inundated with idiots and entitled brats who expect service "because they paid for it", and the average user skill level (and corresponding quality of information) would plummet. I quite like that installing over windows provides a barrier to entry, as it were. Makes people a little more committed.
One could start paid support services, but hey, there goes the community.

Now thanks to systemd, gnome, flatpack etc., the new refugees can move from Windows to Winlin and feel right at home. Why does anyone who understands Linux think this is a good thing?

^You still have BSD's and Slackware if tinkering with the OS rather than using it to do any work is your thing. For others, simplifying Linux might be a blessing they were hoping for.
As for the developers, they will get more coherent platform for their software.

Wheelerof4te wrote:You still have BSD's and Slackware if tinkering with the OS rather than using it to do any work is your thing. For others, simplifying Linux might be a blessing they were hoping for.

Huh, seems I'm capable of doing both. Who would'a thuk it?

Wheelerof4te wrote:As for the developers, they will get more coherent platform for their software.

As for the commercial software vendors, they will get an easier way to distribute closed-source crap.
FTFY.

steve_v wrote:

Wheelerof4te wrote:As for the developers, they will get more coherent platform for their software.

As for the commercial software vendors, they will get an easier way to distribute closed-source crap.
FTFY.

Indeed. Closed-source c**p that creates a revenue stream from paid support. IOW, broken by design for profit . . .

Wheelerof4te wrote:^You still have BSD's and Slackware if tinkering with the OS rather than using it to do any work is your thing. For others, simplifying Linux might be a blessing they were hoping for.

I think most people like the idea of "simple" -- FOSS advocates especially. What concerns me is that your post history suggests that "simple" is exemplified by programs like systemd and Gnome3. I think it best to revise the quoted comment to "simple GUI/UX" or something of the ilk.
If that's true (which I suspect it is), I ask that you take a few steps back and try your best to understand that you're pitching "simple UI over simple code" to a collective of developers -- not Debian developers, but people who maintain serious Linux projects.
I think you've been around long enough to know your audience. Is this a troll thread?

n_hologram wrote:Is this a troll thread?

After slurring bsd and slackware, you doubt? This poster does have a posting history, and I find it really strange. I'm glad you took a look too.

n_hologram wrote:I think you've been around long enough to know your audience. Is this a troll thread?

Check the first post again and you will see what this thread is all about. I regrettably agree that the audience is the wrong one, maybe I should try on some other Linux forum.
Have a nice day.

bw123 wrote:

n_hologram wrote:Is this a troll thread?

you doubt?

Only because wheeler is quite active in the beginner's section and seems to offer genuine advice from time to time.
I know that, for me, transitioning away from a desktop-oriented mindset didn't happen overnight. I think it's a consequence of the 21st-century peddling the belief that a "familiar graphical user interface" and "computers" are (or "should be") one in the same. There are many habits you have to break and learn; there's growing pains with that.
Maybe the Year of the Linux Desktop will emerge as an ironic return to a console-only workstation lol.

wheelerof4te wrote:Check the first post again and you will see what this thread is all about. I regrettably agree that the audience is the wrong one, maybe I should try on some other Linux forum.

Lol I read the original post. I'll share an anecdote about the non-relationship between new technology and open-source projects. Some years ago, I bought a new laptop, and had to upgrade to jessie (back when jessie was unstable) just to get a stable intel graphics driver. Consequently, a lot of things didn't work, and I had to create from scratch a lot of personal workarounds. If I hadn't known nearly as much about Linux as I did at the time, and if I wasn't willing to read and didn't have the time to research (or the ambition to make the time to research), I would have ditched it and returned to Windows in a heartbeat.
If you get a chance, I'm interested to know what other communities think about this topic. I know there's a lot of optimism over at the *buntu forums, because canonical is a gui-oriented project, and if things haven't radically changed since 2013, few of that forum's users are developers. The Lubuntu community actually really likes the idea, and outreach with local communities to resurrect old PCs for community centers for under-resourced children and whatnot, which I think is wonderful.

Linux has already won everywhere except desktop....desktop popularity is nowhere near as important as the other areas where Linux dominates. Think supercomputers, satellites, military, government, cellphones, IOT (internet of things or internet of threats, you choose), etc....Let Apple and Microsoft fight over desktops, that peanuts compares to what Linux is used for.

you doubt?

Only because wheeler is quite active in the beginner's section and seems to offer genuine advice from time to time.

Yeah I agree, many good posts, but some odd ones. I put my foot in my mouth quite often, so maybe it was just a bad joke. I'm sure there is plenty of serious work being done by both bsd and slackware users.

Wheelerof4te wrote:^You still have BSD's and Slackware if tinkering with the OS rather than using it to do any work is your thing. For others, simplifying Linux might be a blessing they were hoping for.
As for the developers, they will get more coherent platform for their software.

tinkering rather than working...ROFLMAO....Slackware was the first GNU/Linux OS used in outer space and is still used in many technically sound and complicated environments...BSD code is in Apple to name just one example, that is far from tinkering...