Page 3 of 4

Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-07 12:34
by Wheelerof4te
This one made me chuckle:
Debian available on Windows 10 as part of WSL
But hatts off to the Debian elite veteran warrior squad, at least you tried.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-07 12:38
by mike acker
Lysander wrote: --snip

Well, the telemetry employed by W10 did push some people over to Linux. As did the adoption of Steam for some others. However, market share appears to have dropped on the desktop in recent months. There was a period in the summer where it flirted with 3% but now it's back down. Maybe some people had time to experiment over the holidays only to revert to Windows.
It seems like there are lots of computer customers who are mainly interested in an "appliance". That's OK. Me? My main interest is in limiting the degree to which my computer is exploited by commercial and advertising interests. I like FOSS and love Linux. At the same time I clearly see such things "are not for everyone". And that's "OK".

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 07:31
by steve_v
Wheelerof4te wrote:hatts off to the Debian elite veteran warrior squad, at least you tried.
I wasn't aware this so-called "elite veteran warrior squad" was up to something, and if they were, I doubt it had anything to do with that other OS or it's virtualisation layer. What's your point?

I don't really grok why so many are getting agitated about this "WSL" gizmo anyway. Some OS I don't want to use has a new feature that makes it suck slightly less, by virtualising one that sucks a lot less. Yawn.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 08:47
by Lysander
steve_v wrote:I don't really grok why so many are getting agitated about this "WSL" gizmo anyway. Some OS I don't want to use has a new feature that makes it suck slightly less, by virtualising one that sucks a lot less. Yawn.
Because people don't trust MS and because MS are insidious. Exactly how does it benefit them to have Ubuntu/Fedora/SUSE functionality on WSL? It's too early to say. But they're not doing it for charity. And now it seems one can run Kali and Debian from WSL - I wasn't aware this was the case with Debian. It's suspicious. Look at this magazine cover - does it not make you feel a little uncomfortable?

MS are well-known for thinking years in advance in order to expand their business. It would surprise no-one if MS bought Canonical and then owned Ubuntu to the view to making it activation-only. Linux on the desktop is still an untapped market and someone will come along and monetise it. It's not a question of 'if' but 'when'.

Year of the Linux desktop is getting less and less to be 'meme' and more of a reality. I would imagine big advances will be made in this area in the next ten years.

If you think this is a leap of faith, consider systemd. Years ago it would have been unthinkable for Debian to adopt it, but adopt it it did, through whatever means [which were themselves dubious]. MS are up to something - this isn't techno-cyber-tinfoil-hattery: it's business, which MS happen to be very good at.
Wheelerof4te wrote:the Debian elite veteran warrior squad
I can but dream.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 09:08
by dilberts_left_nut
Lysander wrote:
Wheelerof4te wrote:the Debian elite veteran warrior squad
I can but dream.
Dream no more
Image

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 09:14
by Lysander
dilberts_left_nut wrote:Dream no more
Ladiez, pls PM me

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 10:12
by mike acker
dilberts_left_nut wrote: I can but dream.
Dream no more
This post is inappropriate: I Object.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 14:18
by n_hologram
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 15#p666261
Wheelerof4te wrote:don't expect any wise words and ideological discussions from me on this forum.
Welcome back.
hatts off to the Debian elite veteran warrior squad
I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea if you mean vanilla Debian devs, or the Debian users criticized in your second "leaving" thread.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-08 14:41
by Wheelerof4te
n_hologram wrote:Welcome back.
I guess that I was a bit sceptical to post the news, but it was far too important to ignore. Sorry if that has upset you.
n_hologram wrote: I have no idea if you mean vanilla Debian devs, or the Debian users criticized in your second "leaving" thread.
This is a valid question. It could be both in a way. Devs, for allowing this in the first place. Ubuntu on Windows? Sure, why not, makes sense.
But Debian? Hell no, if endorsing and promoting free software is it's declared mission.
Veteran users, for failling to see a bigger picture, painting it with rose colours like they are protecting some mystical fairyland. Alas, real world has different rules.
I don't know wheater to be sad, or angry.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-08 14:45
by n_hologram
None of that answered my question. Surely you had a clear definition in mind when posting that. I'm wondering which it was in the original post.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-08 14:59
by Wheelerof4te
n_hologram wrote: I'm wondering which it was in the original post.
You mean, in my first "leave" thread? The same people who allowed that Debian be ported to Windows. Debian is the furthest thing from Windows, besides both being an OS.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-08 15:16
by n_hologram
Wheelerof4te wrote:The same people who allowed that Debian be ported to Windows.
Being free software, I believe Debian allows itself to be ported [citation needed]. But the interests of the group that did the actual porting are also of some interest.

I'm a little sympathetic to this aim, because many work computers (unfortunately) swear by Windows, whereas I can pull-off far more sensible approaches to the same task with Linux cli tools. With that being said, I'm interested in the differences between this project and cygwin...

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 20:01
by Head_on_a_Stick
steve_v wrote:virtualisation layer
Actually the Windows Subsystem for Linux offers a kernel interface for a full (GNU) userspace so it's not virtualised at all, the limitation is that any programs run under it cannot make use of syscalls; it's mainly intended for developers.
Wheelerof4te wrote:Devs, for allowing this in the first place.
You do understand that Debian's licensing expressly forbids them from stopping Microsoft's WSL developers adding Debian to their "app" store, right?

That's why they couldn't stop Shuttlecock and the Comical crew... :mrgreen:

EDIT: also, Kali is now available in Windows:

https://www.kali.org/news/kali-linux-in ... app-store/

^ This could be really good for us, we can just start telling all the h4x0r wannabes to use Win10 instead :twisted:

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 20:36
by HuangLao
Wheelerof4te wrote:This one made me chuckle:
Debian available on Windows 10 as part of WSL
But hatts off to the Debian elite veteran warrior squad, at least you tried.

reality is that for some years now more and more *buntu users and Windows users are becoming/have become dev.'s for Debian, first it was falling to systemd now this...Both moves could not be any further from the goals of original Debian (choice, FOSS, community distro for "all" etc...), so much for increasing the partnership/cooperation with FSF as stated in several lectures by FSF and Debian.

I agree with Lysander, I think this is a long term strategy of Extend, Embrace, Extinguish, they did this before with Novell/SUSE, but with patents. Now they are going to try another scheme. It's one thing for Ubuntu, openSUSE to be available, but Debian should have said FU. But this is the kind of crap you get when distros lose focus and allow new kiddies to run the machinery, instead of tilling the soil and harvesting the corn we get bizarre crop circles in the shape of phallic symbols.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/19/penis-sha ... t-6584860/

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-08 21:37
by n_hologram
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:EDIT: also, Kali is now available in Windows...This could be really good for us, we can just start telling all the h4x0r wannabes to use Win10 instead :twisted:
Finally.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-09 20:49
by Wheelerof4te
New open-sourced MS MSIX installer to bring win32 and UWP programs to other platforms
“The MSIX Packaging SDK project is an effort to enable developers on a variety of platforms to pack and unpack packages for the purposes of distribution from either the Microsoft Store, or their own content distribution networks,” Microsoft explains.
Maybe I'm buying too much into this, or missreading something. From the looks of it, they want more programs to be available in MS Store. This is essentially MS version of snap/flatpak app container. Plus, it's open-source.
What I'm not sure is if this could be used to bring existing win32 and other programs previously only available for Windows to Linux and Mac (even Android maybe).
As someone said, Windows is becoming more and more like Linux and ironically may be what some people wanted Linux to be on the Desktop.

Again, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions. It's too soon to tell.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near...on Windows

Posted: 2018-03-10 10:33
by debiman
please help me understand:
did debian developers contribute or help to make debian available on this windows platform WSL?
isn't it just some sort of virtualisation platform?

anyhow, if it's GPL'd, and as long as Windows adhere to the GPL when they redistribute debian, what can you do about it? nothing but complain?

Lysander wrote:Look at this magazine cover - does it not make you feel a little uncomfortable?
yes it does. 3 reasons:
a) it's ugly
b) it's silly
c) i had to enable javascript to even see it. here's a direct link.


PS:
definitely an upside if we can push kali-wannabe-mrrobots to windows forums :D

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-10 15:48
by n_hologram
Wheelerof4te wrote:As someone said, Windows is becoming more and more like Linux and ironically may be what some people wanted Linux to be on the Desktop.
A back-to-Windows migration sounds like a win-win for everyone.

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-10 17:53
by GarryRicketson
To me , it seems in reverse:
As someone said, Windows is becoming more and more like Linux
Linux is becoming more and more like Windows, to me that is sad, but of course the others, "some people" are very happy with it.
I am happy there are other options .

Re: Year of the Linux Desktop is near

Posted: 2018-03-10 19:01
by Bulkley
GarryRicketson wrote:Linux is becoming more and more like Windows, to me that is sad, but of course the others, "some people" are very happy with it. I am happy there are other options .
+1. I think a lot of what is driving it has to do with technical changes like phones and tablets. Fortunately, Linux still has options. We don't have to use slick desktops if we don't want to.

While I am not a programmer and not well trained in computerese, I still like to configure programs to do what I need. That means opening config files and editing which most Linux programs allow.