LMDE alternative (Closed).

[mike acker]

I've just started playing with the Debian 9.3 + non-free / Cinnamon Dist.

I have this under consideration as an alternative to the LMDE environment. If any of you use the MINT environment you're probably aware that the LMDE option is their alternate system while their main system is Canonical/Ubuntu related. Me, being a fan of FOSS, I prefer to stay free of the Corporate Environment. Canonical is a corporate environment -- so they need to make money with what they do. And that's All Good,-- just not my Cup of Tea.

I'm experimenting with a new install of the Debian 9.3 + non-free / Cinnamon Dist. on my Research Box. The Research Question is: will this environment be a good alternate to the LMDE/MINT setup.

Only way to tell of course -- is to get Boots on the Ground! But, that's why I have a Research Box.

Notes

I have had the "stop job running" issue. 1 min, 30 sec delay to shutting down the system. Is this a Pottering Problem ? (systemd related ?). I see a thread on this on the other board so I'll just watch there to see if it looks like a solution is found.

Installer: when the installer completes it notes: ....."No other OS found on this machine so we are not going to mess around with Grub". Right: the other OS disks were disconnected during install. It seemed to me that when I installed an earlier DEBIAN (9.0) that the boot sequence of my LMDE/2 ( in SDC ) system was improperly modified. I had to re-install the O/S on that drive. It looks to me like what they want to do is setup GRUB on their drive so you can boot any O/S that is found on the box,.... there are 3 right now: SDA (Debian 9.3) SDC (LMDE/2) SDE (Mint/KDE 18).

[debiman]

just a tentative suggestion:
LMDE is based on debian.
you probably want to search distrowatch for other debian-based distros that offer a similarly preconfigured desktop experience as linux mint.
because i don't think debian's cinnamon will be preconfigured for you.

[mike acker]

just a tentative suggestion:
LMDE is based on debian.
you probably want to search distrowatch for other debian-based distros that offer a similarly preconfigured desktop experience as linux mint.
because i don't think debian's cinnamon will be preconfigured for you.

thanks!!

what I have found is that Debian also offers a sub-section:
Debian + non-free

in this subsection I can download a Debian 9.3 that includes some non-free packages -- which are authorized for this type of distribution -- plus -- choice of various Desktops.

this comes to an interesting part of this discussion. As we know the O/S is responsible for providing services -- e.g. posx calls -- plus security: memory and file permissions. IMHO all of this is key to understanding shopping for a Distro. What is needed is: the O/S service -- and of course the GUI (user interface) aka "Desktop" -- which just provides a graphical means of communicating with the O/S

There's more of course: Maintenance.

I used to write software, "Back in the Day" (O/S 360 and 370). But that was long ago. Now, I'm an Old Retired Fellow ("ORF") and so I just kind of poke around and have fun with all the amazing software that is being developed today. One in a while I write a little C or maybe a bash script.

This morning I compiled a list -- 2 pages -- of the programs I like to use in LMDE. The next step in this project is to work with the package manager -- I want to see if I can install or just find the programs I like to use.

as of this morning I have the system up and running -- I'm using it now -- with the Firefox browser.

Don't get me wrong on this though: LMDE is an excellent system. But, for the MINT Dept. it's their "Red Headed stepchild" and we worry a bit over its future.

But, LMDE/2 is approaching End of Life -- although LMDE/3 -- is promised, "RSN". This means: Computer Project Time.

Initially I though about going straight Debian. I played with that, yesterday -- and it looked very promising. The first problem is related to my AMD APU. I've been using AMD APUs in my builds -- except for the last one which has a discrete graphics card. The straight Debian gave a warning that the graphics accelerator was not used and not recommended for actual service. For this reason I've switched back to the Debian 9.3 + non-free Dist.

Right now it looks very good.

I ordered new parts from NewEgg for the rebuild this morning: a 650W PSU + an additional 2T drive. When I initially built my Office box I used a 450W PSU and it doesn't have enough SATA power connectors. We live and learn. The 750W PSU seems a bit of an over kill, Last build I used their (ANTEC) 650W PSU and that is a good unit. Modular -- which means I need only plug in the power cables that I actually need to use. This keeps the internals in the case a lot cleaner.

[None1975]

I've just started playing with the Debian 9.3 + non-free / Cinnamon Dist. Me, being a fan of FOSS, I prefer to stay free

Me, being a fan of FOSS.Debian 9.3 + non-free

[bw123]

[
what I have found is that Debian also offers a sub-section:
Debian + non-free

in this subsection I can download a Debian 9.3 that includes some non-free packages -- which are authorized for this type of distribution -- plus -- choice of various Desktops.

this comes to an interesting part of this discussion. As we know the O/S is responsible for providing services -- e.g. posx calls -- plus security: memory and file permissions. IMHO all of this is key to understanding shopping for a Distro. What is needed is: the O/S service -- and of course the GUI (user interface) aka "Desktop" -- which just provides a graphical means of communicating with the O/S

There's more of course: Maintenance.

The non-free firmware cd, or the non-free section of the repo isn't necessary to get the choice of desktops. And you left out the "freeness" aspect when choosing an operating system. This is something debian is pretty good at, IMO. You are pretty much free to use anything in the distribution however you want with very reasonable limitations, *except* if it is specifically non-free.

https://www.debian.org/intro/about

p.s. describing debian as an alternative to lmde is like calling a garden an alternative to a potted plant, or a beautiful vase of flowers.

[mike acker]

PRINTER

no printer utility in the toolbox

so, I had some learn' to do--

First, I had to get the right printer driver downloaded. Epson does have them for Linux; I got it right on the 2d try.

Second: I had to launch the configuration page from localhost:631 -- not localhost:631/admin/ . this, in order to get logged in.

software installs are going well except it appears we don't have Evolution. I'd rather use Evolution as opposed to T-Bird: the OpenPGP interface in T-Bird sometimes has trouble with pinentry. Claws is much better, but Claws likes plain text e/mails. I tend to agree with them but I've long since been out-voted by the html crowd.

[HuangLao]

Yes, that stop time thingy is thanks to potteringware, and it will appear from time to time on any distro using systemd.

Debian can do anything LMDE does. Take that list of programs you use and install what you want with apt install or synaptic. For most users very little tinkering is required, most of the defaults are sane choices. The biggest hurdle for many is needing firmware for wifi etc... and you solved that with the non-free .iso.

Once you use Debian for some time, you will see that there isn't really a reason for using *buntu or the other hundreds of derivatives, unless you are avoiding a certain potteringware, then .....

[Lysander]

software installs are going well except it appears we don't have Evolution.

Am I missing something here?

https://packages.debian.org/stretch/evolution

potteringware

Indeed, or Lennartnet.

Once you use Debian for some time, you will see that there isn't really a reason for using *buntu or the other hundreds of derivatives

Seconded.

[mike acker]

thanks, guys
this project has turned into a very interesting learning experience

the Potteringware seems to have abated after I got the Debian running once or twice. I suspect it crops up when shutdown is requested -- but something is still active....

I'll look again for Evolution -- do I need to use wget for this one maybe ?

Debian can do anything LMDE does. Take that list of programs you use and install
what you want with apt install or synaptic.

hmmmmm.... the synaptic on the Debian has lots more stuff to look through; I'm kinda fussing with that. Based on this note here I can probably just do my installs from command line

as far as avoiding Potteringware --meh? methinks it's how we do it now. if there was anything wrong in system.d Torvalds would cuss the guy out until the Cowboy Statue fell of the shelf in the Oval Office. Hope Hicks would have a conniption and Kelly Anne would have to get the place straightend up before the Boss gets back from Mar a Lago

[Lysander]

I'll look again for Evolution -- do I need to use wget for this one maybe ?

Even better:

Code: Select all

#apt install evolution

[mike acker]

Debian can do anything LMDE does..

i would expect so. i think the packages like LMDE just have a little more automatic to them,...
perhaps I'm trying to graduate from Linux 102 to Linux 201
hopefully, anyway

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Debian can do anything LMDE does

Since when did Debian stop issuing security advisories?

I tried the first LMDE version (briefly) and it was a complete train-wreck — it had mixed sources OOTB

[MALsPa]

Yeah. It's been a few years since I looked at LMDE, but the main reason I backed off was because it wasn't as close to "straight" Debian as I was hoping for. I compared the repo setup in LMDE 2 ("Besty") to what I had at the time in Debian Jessie. And I looked at the apt-pinning in LMDE 2. And then there was Mint's Update Manager, which was set to allow only "safe," Linux Mint approved updates (based on Mint's "Levels" system). I had high hopes for LMDE, and I'm always interested in Stable-based distros, but for me, LMDE didn't make the cut.

[mike acker]

my personal experience with LMDE has been good. it seems certain LMDE/3 will become available -- I'm guessing 2Q2018. Still, it's also clear that for MINT, LMDE is their "Red Head Stepchild". This seems quite backward to me, especially with Canonical getting cozy with the Commercial Gang from Redmond.

Someplace I think I saw a method for copying a partition. This interests me -- a lot. If I get my Debian 9.30 running good I'm thinking I can copy the root partition onto a SSD and then slip the new SSD into my Office box

unfortunately the disc in the Office box is all 1 partition -- I didn't split / from /home

so: I'll format a new disc and put a /home partition on it and then copy the content of the existing /home directory

i may need some practice editing the fstab file though so when the SSD boots it finds the new /home partition. /swap will be on the SSD

It's amazing -- all the Cool Stuff we can do !!

from the manual:

Code: Select all

       With gparted you can accomplish the following tasks:
       - Create a partition table on a disk device.
       - Enable and disable partition flags such as boot and hidden.
       - Perform actions with partitions such as create, delete, resize, move, check, label, copy, and paste.

       More documentation can be found in the application help manual, and online at:
       http://gparted.org


[mike acker]

I'll look again for Evolution -- do I need to use wget for this one maybe ?

Even better:

Code: Select all

#apt install evolution

yup

that worked like a charm and it was easier than hunting thru the package manager.

- - -

gpg

interesting: I tried to install gpg2 -- no dice.
so,-- I checked the version on gpg:

Code: Select all

$ gpg --version
gpg (GnuPG) 2.1.18
libgcrypt 1.7.6-beta
Copyright (C) 2017 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Supported algorithms:
Pubkey: RSA, ELG, DSA, ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA
Cipher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
        CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
Hash: SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2


it's already up to date. the LMDE system requires me to use gpg2 to get gpg version 2 as their software installer depends on gpg v1. that always seem a little retarded,.....