Make My OS Based On Debian?

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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby RT77 » 2018-02-27 01:22

If anyone can point me in the direction I would appreciate it. One of the things I would like to do is make my own desktop environment but where do I start with this? I have tried some like Gnome, Mate, Cinnamon, LXDE KDE, etc.. but still hope to customize my own. I have seen openbox and they say it is a window manager not a desktop environment so what else would I need to do to achieve this? Sounds rather complicated, hey I am only human and that is why I'm here to ask questions. I appreciate any help offered. Thanks.

Where do I start with something like creating my own desktop environment? Do I create it while in another Desktop Environment and then switch to the newly created one?
Sorry I am a complete NOOB to all of this so please be kind to this old dude.. :)
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby RT77 » 2018-02-27 01:24

stevepusser wrote:The terms of open source licenses mean that you don't need permission from the original developers to change anything; some like the BSD license mean you can do anything you want without any restrictions, which is how the BSD networking stack ended up as a part of Windows NT. Most licenses (GPL, for example) require that you make your changes available to the public, though.

I'd first think to see if you're reinventing the wheel, though. There are distros out there that are easier for raw beginners than Debian, and I imagine you could set one up with Kodi and a quick launcher setup for your other favorite applications with very little work. XFCE is a simple, easy to use, yet customizable desktop that sounds like what you're wishing for.


Thanks yes I was checking into BSD actually for a hardware project and otherwise, thanks for the info, I did not know BSD was a part of windows NT.. interesting. From what I have read Game Consoles use BSD as well.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby debiman » 2018-02-27 06:10

what a rant. so much hot air.
i agree with what someone else already wrote: "...so just do it! all i see is cheap talk..."

just someone else who wants to build aeroplanes before even knowing how to hold a screwdriver:
"I'm not a programmer, but I'm a really good designer! I don't care if it falls apart the moment you prod it with one finger - the most important thing is that it looks good when you open it!"

in my own reply, i pointed out the benefit of looking at what is already there - it is very clear op has not done this, or only very superficially, or else many questions would not have been necessary.
reading the GPL & understanding its role in the development & success of gnu/linux would have been the very first thing.

i have copied RT77's posts because it's just such a precious story, which i want to preserve for posterity (see my sig).

selected highlights in order of appearance:
I will want to develop my own desktop environment, this will probably be difficult as I am not a programmer so I will be making my own development website for all of this and trying to get interested programmers involved.
looking into openbox to customize the look of the themes but I do not know jack about any of this stuff at the moment.
this is particularly hilarious because openbox' themerc files are so simple. i wonder what they will do when they get to gtk3...
Was also hoping to somehow make it so installing software was more easy like windows (...) Too many times I tried to install software only to have issues with dependencies and conflicts of file versions. That is a nightmare I would like to get figured out and fix that somehow.
I am in this for the long haul and will probably be hiring programmers eventually at some point.
I am still young enough to try to get it done.
(hilarious!)
Very ambitious project but that is also why I would like to get people involved. Hope to setup a temporary website and get some people and ideas going on there.
Kind of a Cult Vibe, it's really like a "scene" thing.
(...)
Looking to find some people who want to make something that has not really been done yet (!).
Many times I install linux and it just looks like a pieced together train-wreck to me lol.. because of all the different/odd program names.. what the hell is "conky"? lol.. I have to look that up, but I would want to if possible and only in certain cases use the program source code change a few things up and change the name of the program with permission of course. For example if a text editor was KText, KEditor, KTextEditor etc.. I would want to just name it Text Editor and have that as the system default.
now that sounds a lot like ubuntu!
I am not a troll I am a business person who has many ideas and goals in this life.
I am not delusional
Ubuntu sucks and the owner is just another wanna be, I could care less about Ubuntu owned by some rich fool for God knows for what purposes. Ok Lets say that I don't want to sell it then..
(notice the beginning of a 180 degree turn?)
I am not trying to reinvent the wheel here and it has been done a million times by others
erm, isn't that the definition of re-inventing the wheel?
Where do I start with something like creating my own desktop environment?


and so on...

i guess the good thing is that they have realised what it would require to even begin tackling this.
we should be glad for another vanity project that DIDN'T happen.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby kedaha » 2018-02-27 08:15

I'd just like to comment.
I help a number of people, especially elderly users, to use Debian without charge. I install, configure and occasionally update the system via ssh. I reckon I could make a few cosmetic changes, call it a distro . Similarly I could make available and charge, for example, for a website and personalized email. Although I don't charge anyone, I see no reason why services like these shouldn't be charged for but any modified free software itself should, in my view, be absolutely free of charge.
I'm not very interested in desktop environments and just stick to Debian mate, which I think doesn't need dressing up as something else and I reckon the same could be said about other desktops. Having said that, while I—rather boringly—use the same old desktop, I do appreciate that Debian and other distributions make it possible to customize the desktop according to one's own tastes. I think the choice of desktop and its customisation should be left to the user.
Finally, If I were to help to develop a Debian-based distro—which I have no interest in doing—I would only do so if it were based on 100% free software, i.e., no proprietary software. It seems to me though that most attempts to make new distros move away from free software to facilitate all the proprietary, binary-only stuff. This is obviously retrograde and contrary to the Debian project.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-02-27 12:37

RT77 wrote:I appreciate the responses, but wow you guys are a hard crowd here, my intention is not to rip anyone off, I am not delusional

And my intention was to help you. I didn't say you were delusional, I've written it as a conditional sentence (if you are broke and want to start a new distro without any knowledge, you would be delusional).
RT77 wrote:Ubuntu sucks and the owner is just another wanna be, I could care less about Ubuntu owned by some rich fool for God knows for what purposes.

Wow, didn't think that guy who brought Linux to the Desktop is "just another wanna be". That's where we don't agree. Mark may not be golden, but he left some form of legacy. A lot of Debian users come from Ubuntu, myself included.
With that attitude, you won't find many friends out in the open-source world.
Best of luck on your quest.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby n_hologram » 2018-02-27 14:33

OP: my suggestion is to install a minimal/netinstall in a virtual machine or spare system. As you do your own research, based on specific questions asked on tech/Linux/Debian forums, you can practice their implementation on your own terms. Individual research cannot be replaced. You might, however, consider hiring someone to do that work for you.
I am a business person who has many ideas and goals in this life...

As a savvy business entrepreneur, surely you understand the consequences of negative PR, and the benefits of hiring a tech ambassador of some sort to perform the heavy-lifting of research on your behalf. Then you can scrap what I said about "individual research" because someone will be financially incentivized to do that for you.
I...am trying to make my own Linux OS so I can switch myself and others from Corporations like Microsoft who are greed driven and spy on their users for advertising and profits.

While you may not think you're "trying to reinvent the wheel," it sure sounds like you are. How exactly do you think the corporate-data-mongrel Microsoft started -- or even Android's popularity (its reliance on proprietary driver blobs), for that matter? I think you already answered that:
I did not say I want to make the whole OS closed source, I said only certain parts

This kind of logic and business practice led to the impetus driving the LibreM, by the way, because so many Android phones require, you guessed it, closed-source drivers and inaccessible documentation; this is why ports like Lineage, while popular, are nonetheless limited -- not only in their range of devices, but also in their ability to effectively deter spyware (ie, phone modems). It all has to do with proprietary software, whether or not it's an entire OS or just "certain parts." In other words, this wheel has already been invented; you're late to the game.

The post of mine that you responded to included a shotgun of understandable concerns that are, nonetheless, well-documented and available through even superficial searching. I'll bullet-point some ideas, though.
-XFCE4 menu (not whisker menu) is simple, and Openbox menu as well, with some tweaking (again, do some homework)
-Research the differences between a "desktop environment" and "session"; you can include many benefits of a DE within a session
-"Installing with one file" makes little sense; it sounds like you're referring to binary blobs, but those often require dependencies. A lot of windows installers just happen to include them in the installer -- which is also how you get crapware installed alongside the app you originally wanted, btw. That's why most *nix users endorse package managers and manually building from source.

Final thoughts:
-What makes great *nix distros great is that most users aren't concerned with the "fragmentation" (eg, the example you said about conky vs kde nomenclature). What many people (like you) perceive as a hinderance, others see as a huge benefit, because it permits choice at the expense of ease-of-access. You might find yourself fish-out-of-water, because unless someone is getting paid to do that for you, I doubt you'll find that kind of help (or willful advocacy) for free
-After reading through your posts, now that I know your reputation as a businessman, and since successful business people cater to their customers' needs and wants through focus groups and surveys, I want you to know that I would hate using your distribution; it sounds like another Windows/Android, and I know too much about the nixes -- through individual research -- to really want an MS parody. Keep up with your ambitions, though.
Last edited by n_hologram on 2018-02-27 14:54, edited 1 time in total.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing

the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby None1975 » 2018-02-27 14:52

Looks like topic starter is a fat troll or a person not born out of school age.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby n_hologram » 2018-02-27 14:59

None1975 wrote:Looks like topic starter is a fat troll or a person not born out of school age.

Lol I dunno, Android did open up a Pandora's box of "I can do this too!" for a consumer-Linux mindset. I had a friend who used to unironically have conversations like these. Incidentally, we did come up with some ideas that are literally now being implemented seriously (eg, car computers). Imagination is healthy imo.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing

the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby pawRoot » 2018-02-27 16:31

None1975 wrote:Looks like topic starter is a fat troll or a person not born out of school age.


I think the second one.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby debiman » 2018-02-27 18:30

n_hologram wrote:I would hate using your distribution; it sounds like another Windows/Android, and I know too much about the nixes -- through individual research -- to really want an MS parody.

to me it sounds more like...
there's a short list of distros i maybe tried once in a vm, but more often followed threads on forums, where others ran into problems with (un)said distro.
they are usually built up from the wish to create a really slick user interface, but when you use them regularly, they are coming apart at the seems. always reminds me of something like this.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby HuangLao » 2018-02-27 18:47

RT77 wrote:If anyone can point me in the direction I would appreciate it. One of the things I would like to do is make my own desktop environment but where do I start with this? I have tried some like Gnome, Mate, Cinnamon, LXDE KDE, etc.. but still hope to customize my own. I have seen openbox and they say it is a window manager not a desktop environment so what else would I need to do to achieve this? Sounds rather complicated, hey I am only human and that is why I'm here to ask questions. I appreciate any help offered. Thanks.

Where do I start with something like creating my own desktop environment? Do I create it while in another Desktop Environment and then switch to the newly created one?
Sorry I am a complete NOOB to all of this so please be kind to this old dude.. :)


I have been reading this thread with alot of these moments :twisted: and chose to remain in the shadows. Alas, I can no longer...OP your first post and this one (quoted) both show that you are not ready for the task at hand. I suggest you play with Linux more, and pick a distro or distros or other FOSS projects to assist with. There are plenty of established distros you can help, I am sure they would be more then thankful for the assistance once you prove trustworthy etc... It's not like you can just go to a forum or IIRC and say hey guys I want to help. But I can tell this from your post, your ideas are too scattered, not focused, lack any real attainment potential and borders on trolling or perhaps a kid (that is open to debate).

If you like openbox, play with distros that offer a customized version and fool around with it, or load a distro that gives you a vanilla experience and fool around with it etc.... The fact that on more than one occasion you declare yourself to be a "complete NOOB" is the answer you are searching for.

I now place my inner dasein on mute. :lol:
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby RT77 » 2018-02-27 19:55

Thanks guys for all the personal attacks, very classy.. I remember back in the old AOL days I would hang out in the VB programming rooms and people would treat me in a similar way because I was new to that particular scene. Some people were helpful Thank God but Everyone has to start somewhere or have you guys forgotten that? Unreal how people treat each other these days.. Honestly, learn some manners.. Yes it's the internet but people are still human and have feelings. Calling me a fat troll is not cool my friend and I don't appreciate it. I am sorry I am all over the place with this post. For people that did give any good advice thank you, I appreciate it and I will be experimenting more with Debian as soon as possible and try to make more focused posts in the future. I am here to make friends not enemies. Try to stay positive, I may be a Noob but at least I don't go attacking people who know less than I do about a topic, that is just immature.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby RT77 » 2018-02-27 20:08

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
RT77 wrote:Too many times I tried to install software only to have issues with dependencies and conflicts of file versions. That is a nightmare I would like to get figured out and fix that somehow.

Just learn how to package stuff for Debian if it isn't already in the repositories:

viewtopic.php?t=38976

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=130057

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/


Thank you, I will check these links out.
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby n_hologram » 2018-02-27 20:11

debiman wrote:
n_hologram wrote:I would hate using your distribution; it sounds like another Windows/Android, and I know too much about the nixes -- through individual research -- to really want an MS parody.

to me it sounds more like...
there's a short list of distros i maybe tried once in a vm, but more often followed threads on forums, where others ran into problems with (un)said distro.
they are usually built up from the wish to create a really slick user interface, but when you use them regularly, they are coming apart at the seems. always reminds me of something like this.

This (especially the picture lol) does remind me of how I felt when I started using Lubuntu 13.xx, when the project ballooned faster than anyone could determine a vision, and left it as a fancy GUI supplemented with awful functionality. Like, they developed this "Lubuntu Configuration" gui and none of the options worked, and I mean literally NONE of them. To its credit, the project's brokenness alone is what broke me into text config files and building a system from scratch (minstall). Maybe there's something redemptive in that...but not for Canonical.

RT77 wrote:I don't go attacking people who know less than I do about a topic

Tbh, it would be a good idea to provide a specific question which shows some research before posting. A lot of your replies that I read were purely speculative, and speculative responses devoid of research is a sign of trolling here. I would try to forgive the people who see, in your posts, a pattern that signifies someone chortling amusedly behind a computer screen. Honestly, there was a point at which I thought you were not a troll, but a sophisticated bot.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing

the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...
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Re: Make My OS Based On Debian?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-02-27 20:45

RT77 wrote: Where do I start with something like creating my own desktop environment? Do I create it while in another Desktop Environment and then switch to the newly created one?


I found this comment/question humorous, You start at the command line:
$___
or
#___
With some shell scripts, perl, and text menus you can start creating the WM or DE as needed,... installing a pre-built program like Xorg, helps make things much easier, and gives you full graphic capabiliies.
You do not need a Desktop Environment to create one, How do you think we started making Desktop Environments, and Window managers before , when we did not have them ?
A simple search :
How can I create my own desktop environment on a unix like system
===============================
Here is my Minix 3 Desktop, using FVWM (window manager)
Image
====================
In fact that would be a good place to start, install Minix 3, you will not have any thing more then a base system, then start building it up, Did you know Linus, was using Minix to learn with, when he developed his first Linux kernel ?
In 1991, while studying computer science at University of Helsinki, Linus Torvalds began a project that later became the Linux kernel. He wrote the program specifically for the hardware he was using and independent of an operating system because he wanted to use the functions of his new PC with an 80386 processor. Development was done on MINIX using the GNU C compiler.

===============
For more screen shots


And then this comment:
Post by RT77 » 2018-02-27 13:55
Thanks guys for all the personal attacks, very classy.. I remember back in the old AOL days I would hang out in the VB programming rooms --- snip---


AOL, ? you must be joking,... I do remember when they started giving AOL losers access to usenet, and that was the end of "usenet" as we knew it, the beginning of "useless net", and AOL/windows users/losers on the internet....



================================

Image
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2018-02-27 21:52, edited 5 times in total.
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