How clean are your boots

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How clean are your boots

Postby llivv » 2018-04-10 23:54

Siri -ously,
Most of my installs have horrendously dirty boots
Dirty enough to make me contemplate rebooting if I actually look at them.
If anyone notices a clean boot on a system that has been installed for more than a few weeks
and is actually doing something, please describe it.
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby steve_v » 2018-04-11 04:06

Dirty? What do you mean by "dirty"? Dirty filesystem? Boot errors?

I have a system here that has been installed for ~8 years, been through many dist-upgrades to new releases, and is pretty much always doing something. It doesn't get rebooted often, but when it does it certainly boots "clean".
I don't know how to describe that, other than "working as expected".
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-04-11 08:40

Are there any actual problems?
Code: Select all
systemctl --failed

Is anything taking too long?
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze blame
systemd-analyze critical-chain
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg

Anything bad in the journal?
Code: Select all
journalctl -b

I've been running the same Debain system since jessie was frozen (it's now on stretch) and the boot times are pretty much exactly the same as they were when I first installed it.
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby steve_v » 2018-04-11 08:51

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:systemctl...
:lol:
Code: Select all
# systemctl --failed
The program 'systemctl' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
apt-get install systemd
systemctl: command not found
Maybe that's why my boots are so "clean"...

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I've been running the same Debain system since jessie was frozen (it's now on stretch)

I've been running the same Debian system since Etch, it's now on Jessie. I'll be moving to Devuan once Ascii is stable.
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-04-11 08:57

@steve_v, are you aware that the systemd-shim is currently un-maintained?

I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on an un-maintained package :/

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=832508
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby steve_v » 2018-04-11 09:14

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:@steve_v, are you aware that the systemd-shim is currently un-maintained?
Sure, like I said, I'll be moving this system to Devuan soon (when ascii is stable or jessie EOL, whichever happens first). Hopefully by that time they have openrc integrated.
In the meantime, systemd-shim has no serious issues and is still quite usable.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on an un-maintained package
I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on a smouldering garbage fire for an init system...
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-04-11 09:22

^ Then why are you using sysvinit now? :mrgreen:

Parabola have an OpenRC edition that looks very interesting:

https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC

Sorry for the diversion OP!
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby steve_v » 2018-04-11 09:27

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Then why are you using sysvinit now?
Better the devil you know. Despite it's shortcomings I've never had any major problems with it, the same cannot be said for systemd.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Parabola have an OpenRC edition that looks very interesting
It's on my radar, but it's also Arch based, which is a little too bleeding edge for this particular machine.
If I want bleeding edge, I'll just run Gentoo... Which I do, on my desktop. :)
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby Lysander » 2018-04-11 09:29

steve_v wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Then why are you using sysvinit now?
Better the devil you know. Despite it's shortcomings I've never had any major problems with it, the same cannot be said for systemd.


I have never once had a problem starting up or shutting down with SysV. Every so often, on the other hand, systemd will throw up its hands and hang on startup, and the only way out is a hard reset.

REISUB does nothing in such a situation [incidentially this exact same issue was filed in a report by dasein but it was closed as NOTABUG].
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby steve_v » 2018-04-11 09:41

Lysander wrote:Every so often, on the other hand, systemd will throw up its hands and hang on startup, and the only way out is a hard reset.
Indeed, I have seen that too.
Lysander wrote:filed in a report by dasein but it was closed as NOTABUG
Kinda had a gutsfull of both the random opaque bugs and the devs attitude to them. And people wonder why the old-hands who like stable systems seem to be leaving...

An init system has one job, if I can't rely on it to bring the system up, even to a minimal usable state, I want nothing to do with it.
As Debian is now so committed to this blunder that nobody is even willing to maintain systemd-shim, I'll probably be disappearing soon too.
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby llivv » 2018-04-11 16:57

I rarely dig into issues these days and I have some old possibly misguided ideas about how things work from my observations so far.
I posted the clean boot thing in relation to kworker processes in the kernel space.

I don't like kworkers showing up in user space either since I seem to notice them most while having issues with browser tabs mostly.
But sometimes I see a lot of kworkers showing up in kernel space and wonder why and how to clean that mess up.

So after reading all your posts above I thought I'd better go look up exactly what these kworkers are and what they do.
Found this description which looks pretty good to me, so far anyways.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... ng-kworker

I've installed minimal systemd on a few installs just to get an idea about what changes we're looking at as we linux users
follow the path down to being Massive Paralell with the rest of the computers and phones being marketed these days.
I wonder if System D ebug would be possible without kworkers... I'll have to do some more digging in the dogpile.

oh yeah from userspace on jessie on an ancient core2 quad upgraded from an even more ancient P4 32 bit

Code: Select all
root      6351  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:07   0:00 [kworker/1:1]
root      6381  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:10   0:00 [kworker/2:2]
root      6390  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:12   0:00 [kworker/1:0]
root      6414  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:15   0:00 [kworker/2:1]
llivv     6415  0.0  0.4  13984  9588 ?        Ss   13:15   0:00 xterm
llivv     6417  0.0  0.1   5764  3360 pts/1    Ss   13:15   0:00 bash
root      6421  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:15   0:00 [kworker/u8:2]
root      6434  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:17   0:00 [kworker/1:2]
llivv     6436  1.0  0.1   5032  2280 pts/1    R+   13:19   0:00 ps aux
llivv@b12:~$ uname -r
4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-04-11 17:51

I don't know if this helps at all but I have lots of kworker processes running under OpenRC (Alpine Linux) so it's nothing to do with the init system:
Code: Select all
alpine:~$ ps aux|grep -c kworker
39
alpine:~$

In fact, I seem to have more than you :P
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby stevepusser » 2018-04-11 18:31

It depends on the kernel, too. My particular laptop gets multiple messages
Code: Select all
[    4.999504] pstore: decompression failed: -5
[    4.999941] pstore: decompression failed: -5
[    5.000417] pstore: decompression failed: -5
...


with backported Debian 4.15 kernels, but they don't appear at all with backported 4.15 Liquorix kernels. Either way, both kernels run just fine for me regardless of whatever pstore is, and others don't report the messages on their machines at all.

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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-04-15 12:30

My boots are very clean and fast.

systemd-analyze shows boot time under 5 secs, on a HDD:
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze blame
          4.722s dev-sda2.device
          4.009s NetworkManager.service
          3.784s udisks2.service
          3.400s ModemManager.service
          3.364s accounts-daemon.service
          3.230s networking.service
          2.663s wpa_supplicant.service
          2.644s systemd-logind.service
          2.643s avahi-daemon.service
          2.420s packagekit.service
          2.127s switcheroo-control.service
          2.122s pppd-dns.service
          2.121s bluetooth.service
          1.978s systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-71C3\x2d8E50.service
          1.845s rsyslog.service
          1.129s apparmor.service
           848ms keyboard-setup.service
           708ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-75f68eeb\x2d1d56\x2d48db\x2d88
           586ms gdm.service
           544ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-0c3da660\x2df099\x2d43bd\x2da2b8\x2dfbdc321
           509ms systemd-backlight@backlight:intel_backlight.service
           492ms user@113.service
           467ms systemd-udevd.service

Of course, boot time is actually around 16 secs from the grub screen to the login screen and bluetooth service shows some timeouts. Makes no difference to me, I boot my laptop maybe twice a day on average.
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Re: How clean are your boots

Postby dcihon » 2018-04-15 12:40

Sorry to jump in here.
Why does my udisks2.service say:
13.535s udisks2.service

Yours says:
3.784s udisks2.service

Could it be because of this:

Code: Select all
root@cihonm:/home/cihonm/Downloads/Brother # lsblk                                                                                                                     
NAME    MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
loop0     7:0    0  81.7M  1 loop /snap/core/4206
loop1     7:1    0  86.5M  1 loop /snap/core/4407
loop2     7:2    0    82M  1 loop /snap/core/4327
loop3     7:3    0 193.1M  1 loop /snap/acestreamplayer/7
sda       8:0    0   1.8T  0 disk
├─sda1    8:1    0   102M  0 part
├─sda2    8:2    0  13.8G  0 part
├─sda3    8:3    0 465.8G  0 part
├─sda4    8:4    0     1K  0 part
├─sda5    8:5    0    16G  0 part [SWAP]
├─sda6    8:6    0    60G  0 part /
├─sda7    8:7    0    60G  0 part
├─sda8    8:8    0   265G  0 part
├─sda9    8:9    0  20.7G  0 part
├─sda10   8:10   0  78.9G  0 part
└─sda11   8:11   0 882.9G  0 part /home
sr0      11:0    1  1024M  0 rom 
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