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How clean are your boots

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llivv
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How clean are your boots

#1 Post by llivv »

Siri -ously,
Most of my installs have horrendously dirty boots
Dirty enough to make me contemplate rebooting if I actually look at them.
If anyone notices a clean boot on a system that has been installed for more than a few weeks
and is actually doing something, please describe it.
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.

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Re: How clean are your boots

#2 Post by steve_v »

Dirty? What do you mean by "dirty"? Dirty filesystem? Boot errors?

I have a system here that has been installed for ~8 years, been through many dist-upgrades to new releases, and is pretty much always doing something. It doesn't get rebooted often, but when it does it certainly boots "clean".
I don't know how to describe that, other than "working as expected".
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Re: How clean are your boots

#3 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Are there any actual problems?

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systemctl --failed
Is anything taking too long?

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systemd-analyze blame
systemd-analyze critical-chain
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg
Anything bad in the journal?

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journalctl -b
I've been running the same Debain system since jessie was frozen (it's now on stretch) and the boot times are pretty much exactly the same as they were when I first installed it.
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Re: How clean are your boots

#4 Post by steve_v »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:systemctl...
:lol:

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# systemctl --failed
The program 'systemctl' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
apt-get install systemd
systemctl: command not found
Maybe that's why my boots are so "clean"...
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I've been running the same Debain system since jessie was frozen (it's now on stretch)
I've been running the same Debian system since Etch, it's now on Jessie. I'll be moving to Devuan once Ascii is stable.
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Re: How clean are your boots

#5 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

@steve_v, are you aware that the systemd-shim is currently un-maintained?

I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on an un-maintained package :/

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=832508
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Re: How clean are your boots

#6 Post by steve_v »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:@steve_v, are you aware that the systemd-shim is currently un-maintained?
Sure, like I said, I'll be moving this system to Devuan soon (when ascii is stable or jessie EOL, whichever happens first). Hopefully by that time they have openrc integrated.
In the meantime, systemd-shim has no serious issues and is still quite usable.
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on an un-maintained package
I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on a smouldering garbage fire for an init system...
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Re: How clean are your boots

#7 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

^ Then why are you using sysvinit now? :mrgreen:

Parabola have an OpenRC edition that looks very interesting:

https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC

Sorry for the diversion OP!
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Re: How clean are your boots

#8 Post by steve_v »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Then why are you using sysvinit now?
Better the devil you know. Despite it's shortcomings I've never had any major problems with it, the same cannot be said for systemd.
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Parabola have an OpenRC edition that looks very interesting
It's on my radar, but it's also Arch based, which is a little too bleeding edge for this particular machine.
If I want bleeding edge, I'll just run Gentoo... Which I do, on my desktop. :)
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Re: How clean are your boots

#9 Post by Lysander »

steve_v wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Then why are you using sysvinit now?
Better the devil you know. Despite it's shortcomings I've never had any major problems with it, the same cannot be said for systemd.
I have never once had a problem starting up or shutting down with SysV. Every so often, on the other hand, systemd will throw up its hands and hang on startup, and the only way out is a hard reset.

REISUB does nothing in such a situation [incidentially this exact same issue was filed in a report by dasein but it was closed as NOTABUG].

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Re: How clean are your boots

#10 Post by steve_v »

Lysander wrote:Every so often, on the other hand, systemd will throw up its hands and hang on startup, and the only way out is a hard reset.
Indeed, I have seen that too.
Lysander wrote:filed in a report by dasein but it was closed as NOTABUG
Kinda had a gutsfull of both the random opaque bugs and the devs attitude to them. And people wonder why the old-hands who like stable systems seem to be leaving...

An init system has one job, if I can't rely on it to bring the system up, even to a minimal usable state, I want nothing to do with it.
As Debian is now so committed to this blunder that nobody is even willing to maintain systemd-shim, I'll probably be disappearing soon too.
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Re: How clean are your boots

#11 Post by llivv »

I rarely dig into issues these days and I have some old possibly misguided ideas about how things work from my observations so far.
I posted the clean boot thing in relation to kworker processes in the kernel space.

I don't like kworkers showing up in user space either since I seem to notice them most while having issues with browser tabs mostly.
But sometimes I see a lot of kworkers showing up in kernel space and wonder why and how to clean that mess up.

So after reading all your posts above I thought I'd better go look up exactly what these kworkers are and what they do.
Found this description which looks pretty good to me, so far anyways.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... ng-kworker

I've installed minimal systemd on a few installs just to get an idea about what changes we're looking at as we linux users
follow the path down to being Massive Paralell with the rest of the computers and phones being marketed these days.
I wonder if System D ebug would be possible without kworkers... I'll have to do some more digging in the dogpile.

oh yeah from userspace on jessie on an ancient core2 quad upgraded from an even more ancient P4 32 bit

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root      6351  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:07   0:00 [kworker/1:1]
root      6381  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:10   0:00 [kworker/2:2]
root      6390  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:12   0:00 [kworker/1:0]
root      6414  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:15   0:00 [kworker/2:1]
llivv     6415  0.0  0.4  13984  9588 ?        Ss   13:15   0:00 xterm
llivv     6417  0.0  0.1   5764  3360 pts/1    Ss   13:15   0:00 bash
root      6421  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:15   0:00 [kworker/u8:2]
root      6434  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    13:17   0:00 [kworker/1:2]
llivv     6436  1.0  0.1   5032  2280 pts/1    R+   13:19   0:00 ps aux
llivv@b12:~$ uname -r
4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
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Re: How clean are your boots

#12 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

I don't know if this helps at all but I have lots of kworker processes running under OpenRC (Alpine Linux) so it's nothing to do with the init system:

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alpine:~$ ps aux|grep -c kworker
39
alpine:~$
In fact, I seem to have more than you :P
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Re: How clean are your boots

#13 Post by stevepusser »

It depends on the kernel, too. My particular laptop gets multiple messages

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[    4.999504] pstore: decompression failed: -5
[    4.999941] pstore: decompression failed: -5
[    5.000417] pstore: decompression failed: -5
...
with backported Debian 4.15 kernels, but they don't appear at all with backported 4.15 Liquorix kernels. Either way, both kernels run just fine for me regardless of whatever pstore is, and others don't report the messages on their machines at all.

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Re: How clean are your boots

#14 Post by Wheelerof4te »

My boots are very clean and fast.

systemd-analyze shows boot time under 5 secs, on a HDD:

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systemd-analyze blame
          4.722s dev-sda2.device
          4.009s NetworkManager.service
          3.784s udisks2.service
          3.400s ModemManager.service
          3.364s accounts-daemon.service
          3.230s networking.service
          2.663s wpa_supplicant.service
          2.644s systemd-logind.service
          2.643s avahi-daemon.service
          2.420s packagekit.service
          2.127s switcheroo-control.service
          2.122s pppd-dns.service
          2.121s bluetooth.service
          1.978s systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-71C3\x2d8E50.service
          1.845s rsyslog.service
          1.129s apparmor.service
           848ms keyboard-setup.service
           708ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-75f68eeb\x2d1d56\x2d48db\x2d88
           586ms gdm.service
           544ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-0c3da660\x2df099\x2d43bd\x2da2b8\x2dfbdc321
           509ms systemd-backlight@backlight:intel_backlight.service
           492ms user@113.service
           467ms systemd-udevd.service
Of course, boot time is actually around 16 secs from the grub screen to the login screen and bluetooth service shows some timeouts. Makes no difference to me, I boot my laptop maybe twice a day on average.

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Re: How clean are your boots

#15 Post by dcihon »

Sorry to jump in here.
Why does my udisks2.service say:
13.535s udisks2.service

Yours says:
3.784s udisks2.service

Could it be because of this:

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root@cihonm:/home/cihonm/Downloads/Brother # lsblk                                                                                                                     
NAME    MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
loop0     7:0    0  81.7M  1 loop /snap/core/4206
loop1     7:1    0  86.5M  1 loop /snap/core/4407
loop2     7:2    0    82M  1 loop /snap/core/4327
loop3     7:3    0 193.1M  1 loop /snap/acestreamplayer/7
sda       8:0    0   1.8T  0 disk 
├─sda1    8:1    0   102M  0 part 
├─sda2    8:2    0  13.8G  0 part 
├─sda3    8:3    0 465.8G  0 part 
├─sda4    8:4    0     1K  0 part 
├─sda5    8:5    0    16G  0 part [SWAP]
├─sda6    8:6    0    60G  0 part /
├─sda7    8:7    0    60G  0 part 
├─sda8    8:8    0   265G  0 part 
├─sda9    8:9    0  20.7G  0 part 
├─sda10   8:10   0  78.9G  0 part 
└─sda11   8:11   0 882.9G  0 part /home
sr0      11:0    1  1024M  0 rom  

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Re: How clean are your boots

#16 Post by Wheelerof4te »

@dcihon Yeah, you have many partitions. Plus, snaps must be mounted, too. Don't know why they take so long, but then again I don't use them. Flatpaks FTW.
Seriously, that looks like a mess. Really dirty :D

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Re: How clean are your boots

#17 Post by None1975 »

My boots. Clean and fast. About 8 sec. (system on traditional spinning hard drive (hdd)

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systemd-analyze blame
          3.821s keyboard-setup.service
          3.677s dev-sda1.device
          3.273s ufw.service
           747ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
           546ms systemd-udevd.service
           451ms rsyslog.service
           451ms atopacct.service
           451ms systemd-user-sessions.service
           339ms systemd-logind.service
           285ms dev-mqueue.mount
           272ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
           271ms dev-hugepages.mount
           243ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
           241ms systemd-timesyncd.service
           239ms user@1000.service
           238ms systemd-remount-fs.service
           231ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-f8b6e55b\x2d99dc\x2d4585\x2d8df8\x2d52c55677b22b.service
           190ms systemd-modules-load.service
           185ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-5540013f\x2d2eed\x2d412e\x2dba2d\x2df4d8bc3af386.swap
           177ms systemd-journal-flush.service
           176ms networking.service
           174ms systemd-journald.service
           171ms systemd-sysctl.service
           150ms systemd-random-seed.service
           136ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
           134ms systemd-update-utmp.service
           121ms console-setup.service
           104ms home.mount
            61ms kmod-static-nodes.service
            53ms systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
             7ms alsa-restore.service
             5ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
Startup time

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systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 2.637s (kernel) + 5.907s (userspace) = 8.545s
OS: Debian 12.4 Bookworm / DE: Enlightenment
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Re: How clean are your boots

#18 Post by Lysander »

Same here, None1975. I'm using an SSD but I suspect your overall hardware is superior to mine.

Code: Select all

lysander@psychopig-xxxiii:~$ systemd-analyze blame
          5.431s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
          1.586s keyboard-setup.service
          1.496s systemd-journal-flush.service
          1.402s dev-sdc1.device
           705ms ufw.service
           457ms mnt-01C962C5B094A220.mount
           294ms ModemManager.service
           217ms systemd-logind.service
           209ms sddm.service
           180ms lm-sensors.service
           171ms systemd-timesyncd.service
           165ms virtualbox.service
           151ms pppd-dns.service
           149ms rsyslog.service
           130ms systemd-udevd.service
           121ms accounts-daemon.service
           120ms systemd-journald.service
           116ms NetworkManager.service
           114ms upower.service
            97ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-48548a61\x2de316\x2d42e3\x2db7c1\x2de074029fa679.swap
            95ms networking.service
            91ms udisks2.service
            90ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
            79ms avahi-daemon.service
            79ms rtkit-daemon.service
            75ms packagekit.service
            63ms alsa-restore.service
            62ms user@116.service
            59ms binfmt-support.service
            59ms gdomap.service
            55ms user@1000.service
            47ms speech-dispatcher.service
            47ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
            44ms colord.service
            42ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-c6406cea\x2db96c\x2d48c1\x2da33f\x2d804c9f611ae6.service
            40ms polkit.service
            35ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
            34ms systemd-modules-load.service
            32ms gdm.service
            29ms geoclue.service
            24ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
            23ms dev-mqueue.mount
            22ms wpa_supplicant.service
            21ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
            21ms dev-hugepages.mount
            20ms systemd-random-seed.service
            18ms systemd-user-sessions.service
            16ms systemd-remount-fs.service
            16ms kmod-static-nodes.service
            15ms home.mount
            14ms systemd-update-utmp.service
            13ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
            13ms hddtemp.service
            10ms systemd-sysctl.service
             8ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
             7ms console-setup.service
             7ms minissdpd.service

Code: Select all

lysander@psychopig-xxxiii:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 2.268s (kernel) + 7.915s (userspace) = 10.184s
By comparison Slackware with SvsV takes between 50-60 seconds to boot [both VM and bare metal] but I have never had a boot issue with it, unlike in systemd.

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Re: How clean are your boots

#19 Post by anticapitalista »

Using antiX with sysvinit and eudev, slim login and herbstluftwm.
i5 lenovo thinkpad L412 laptop, ssd, 6GB RAM.

Boot time is less than 10 secs.

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start-t herbstluftwm
        8.58

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: antix1 Kernel: 4.16.2-antix.2-amd64-smp x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 6.3.0 
           Desktop: herbstluftwm Distro: antiX-17.a2_x64-full keerfa 16 February 2017 
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 0585W28 v: ThinkPad L412 serial: N/A 
           Mobo: LENOVO model: 0585W28 serial: N/A BIOS: LENOVO v: 81ET63WW (1.39 ) date: 04/11/2013 
Battery:   ID-1: BAT1 charge: 21.3 Wh condition: 21.5/47.5 Wh (45%) model: SANYO 42T4751 status: Unknown 
CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i5 M 520 type: MT MCP arch: Nehalem rev: 2 L2 cache: 3072 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 19151 
           Speed: 1312 MHz min/max: 1199/2400 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1264 2: 1363 3: 1354 4: 1432 
Graphics:  Card-1: Intel Core Processor Integrated Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 
           Display: server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: intel resolution: 1366x768~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ironlake Mobile v: 2.1 Mesa 13.0.6 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Card-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel 
           bus ID: 00:1b.0 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.16.2-antix.2-amd64-smp 
Network:   Card-1: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel bus ID: 03:00.0 
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter> 
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI 
           port: 2000 bus ID: 04:00.0 
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 111.79 GiB used: 65.99 GiB (59.0%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: SanDisk_SDSSDA12 size: 111.79 GiB 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 109.53 GiB used: 65.99 GiB (60.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 40.0 C mobo: 0.0 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 0 
Info:      Processes: 156 Uptime: 5m Memory: 7.60 GiB used: 558.6 MiB (7.2%) Init: SysVinit runlevel: 5 
           Compilers: gcc: 6.3.0 Shell: bash v: 4.4.12 inxi: 3.0.03 
antiX with runit - lean and mean.
https://antixlinux.com

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Re: How clean are your boots

#20 Post by llivv »

stevepusser wrote: with backported Debian 4.15 kernels, but they don't appear at all with backported 4.15 Liquorix kernels. Either way, both kernels run just fine for me regardless of whatever pstore is, and others don't report the messages on their machines at all.
mine are cleaning right up after replacing the old 686-pae kernels with amd64 kernels.
and debootstraping new userspace since it's way easier than relinking new libs.
stevepusser wrote:Image
hehe glad you got the double meaning in the title :)
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