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How clean are your boots
How clean are your boots
Siri -ously,
Most of my installs have horrendously dirty boots
Dirty enough to make me contemplate rebooting if I actually look at them.
If anyone notices a clean boot on a system that has been installed for more than a few weeks
and is actually doing something, please describe it.
Most of my installs have horrendously dirty boots
Dirty enough to make me contemplate rebooting if I actually look at them.
If anyone notices a clean boot on a system that has been installed for more than a few weeks
and is actually doing something, please describe it.
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.
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Re: How clean are your boots
Dirty? What do you mean by "dirty"? Dirty filesystem? Boot errors?
I have a system here that has been installed for ~8 years, been through many dist-upgrades to new releases, and is pretty much always doing something. It doesn't get rebooted often, but when it does it certainly boots "clean".
I don't know how to describe that, other than "working as expected".
I have a system here that has been installed for ~8 years, been through many dist-upgrades to new releases, and is pretty much always doing something. It doesn't get rebooted often, but when it does it certainly boots "clean".
I don't know how to describe that, other than "working as expected".
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: How clean are your boots
Are there any actual problems?
Is anything taking too long?
Anything bad in the journal?
I've been running the same Debain system since jessie was frozen (it's now on stretch) and the boot times are pretty much exactly the same as they were when I first installed it.
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systemctl --failed
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systemd-analyze blame
systemd-analyze critical-chain
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg
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journalctl -b
deadbang
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Re: How clean are your boots
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:systemctl...
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# systemctl --failed
The program 'systemctl' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
apt-get install systemd
systemctl: command not found
I've been running the same Debian system since Etch, it's now on Jessie. I'll be moving to Devuan once Ascii is stable.Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I've been running the same Debain system since jessie was frozen (it's now on stretch)
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: How clean are your boots
@steve_v, are you aware that the systemd-shim is currently un-maintained?
I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on an un-maintained package :/
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=832508
I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on an un-maintained package :/
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=832508
deadbang
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Re: How clean are your boots
Sure, like I said, I'll be moving this system to Devuan soon (when ascii is stable or jessie EOL, whichever happens first). Hopefully by that time they have openrc integrated.Head_on_a_Stick wrote:@steve_v, are you aware that the systemd-shim is currently un-maintained?
In the meantime, systemd-shim has no serious issues and is still quite usable.
I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on a smouldering garbage fire for an init system...Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I would not be comfortable running a system that depends on an un-maintained package
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: How clean are your boots
^ Then why are you using sysvinit now?
Parabola have an OpenRC edition that looks very interesting:
https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC
Sorry for the diversion OP!
Parabola have an OpenRC edition that looks very interesting:
https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC
Sorry for the diversion OP!
deadbang
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Re: How clean are your boots
Better the devil you know. Despite it's shortcomings I've never had any major problems with it, the same cannot be said for systemd.Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Then why are you using sysvinit now?
It's on my radar, but it's also Arch based, which is a little too bleeding edge for this particular machine.Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Parabola have an OpenRC edition that looks very interesting
If I want bleeding edge, I'll just run Gentoo... Which I do, on my desktop.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
Re: How clean are your boots
I have never once had a problem starting up or shutting down with SysV. Every so often, on the other hand, systemd will throw up its hands and hang on startup, and the only way out is a hard reset.steve_v wrote:Better the devil you know. Despite it's shortcomings I've never had any major problems with it, the same cannot be said for systemd.Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Then why are you using sysvinit now?
REISUB does nothing in such a situation [incidentially this exact same issue was filed in a report by dasein but it was closed as NOTABUG].
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Re: How clean are your boots
Indeed, I have seen that too.Lysander wrote:Every so often, on the other hand, systemd will throw up its hands and hang on startup, and the only way out is a hard reset.
Kinda had a gutsfull of both the random opaque bugs and the devs attitude to them. And people wonder why the old-hands who like stable systems seem to be leaving...Lysander wrote:filed in a report by dasein but it was closed as NOTABUG
An init system has one job, if I can't rely on it to bring the system up, even to a minimal usable state, I want nothing to do with it.
As Debian is now so committed to this blunder that nobody is even willing to maintain systemd-shim, I'll probably be disappearing soon too.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
Re: How clean are your boots
I rarely dig into issues these days and I have some old possibly misguided ideas about how things work from my observations so far.
I posted the clean boot thing in relation to kworker processes in the kernel space.
I don't like kworkers showing up in user space either since I seem to notice them most while having issues with browser tabs mostly.
But sometimes I see a lot of kworkers showing up in kernel space and wonder why and how to clean that mess up.
So after reading all your posts above I thought I'd better go look up exactly what these kworkers are and what they do.
Found this description which looks pretty good to me, so far anyways.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... ng-kworker
I've installed minimal systemd on a few installs just to get an idea about what changes we're looking at as we linux users
follow the path down to being Massive Paralell with the rest of the computers and phones being marketed these days.
I wonder if System D ebug would be possible without kworkers... I'll have to do some more digging in the dogpile.
oh yeah from userspace on jessie on an ancient core2 quad upgraded from an even more ancient P4 32 bit
I posted the clean boot thing in relation to kworker processes in the kernel space.
I don't like kworkers showing up in user space either since I seem to notice them most while having issues with browser tabs mostly.
But sometimes I see a lot of kworkers showing up in kernel space and wonder why and how to clean that mess up.
So after reading all your posts above I thought I'd better go look up exactly what these kworkers are and what they do.
Found this description which looks pretty good to me, so far anyways.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... ng-kworker
I've installed minimal systemd on a few installs just to get an idea about what changes we're looking at as we linux users
follow the path down to being Massive Paralell with the rest of the computers and phones being marketed these days.
I wonder if System D ebug would be possible without kworkers... I'll have to do some more digging in the dogpile.
oh yeah from userspace on jessie on an ancient core2 quad upgraded from an even more ancient P4 32 bit
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root 6351 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:07 0:00 [kworker/1:1]
root 6381 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:10 0:00 [kworker/2:2]
root 6390 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:12 0:00 [kworker/1:0]
root 6414 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:15 0:00 [kworker/2:1]
llivv 6415 0.0 0.4 13984 9588 ? Ss 13:15 0:00 xterm
llivv 6417 0.0 0.1 5764 3360 pts/1 Ss 13:15 0:00 bash
root 6421 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:15 0:00 [kworker/u8:2]
root 6434 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:17 0:00 [kworker/1:2]
llivv 6436 1.0 0.1 5032 2280 pts/1 R+ 13:19 0:00 ps aux
llivv@b12:~$ uname -r
4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: How clean are your boots
I don't know if this helps at all but I have lots of kworker processes running under OpenRC (Alpine Linux) so it's nothing to do with the init system:
In fact, I seem to have more than you
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alpine:~$ ps aux|grep -c kworker
39
alpine:~$
deadbang
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Re: How clean are your boots
It depends on the kernel, too. My particular laptop gets multiple messages
with backported Debian 4.15 kernels, but they don't appear at all with backported 4.15 Liquorix kernels. Either way, both kernels run just fine for me regardless of whatever pstore is, and others don't report the messages on their machines at all.
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[ 4.999504] pstore: decompression failed: -5
[ 4.999941] pstore: decompression failed: -5
[ 5.000417] pstore: decompression failed: -5
...
MX Linux packager and developer
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Re: How clean are your boots
My boots are very clean and fast.
systemd-analyze shows boot time under 5 secs, on a HDD:
Of course, boot time is actually around 16 secs from the grub screen to the login screen and bluetooth service shows some timeouts. Makes no difference to me, I boot my laptop maybe twice a day on average.
systemd-analyze shows boot time under 5 secs, on a HDD:
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systemd-analyze blame
4.722s dev-sda2.device
4.009s NetworkManager.service
3.784s udisks2.service
3.400s ModemManager.service
3.364s accounts-daemon.service
3.230s networking.service
2.663s wpa_supplicant.service
2.644s systemd-logind.service
2.643s avahi-daemon.service
2.420s packagekit.service
2.127s switcheroo-control.service
2.122s pppd-dns.service
2.121s bluetooth.service
1.978s systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-71C3\x2d8E50.service
1.845s rsyslog.service
1.129s apparmor.service
848ms keyboard-setup.service
708ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-75f68eeb\x2d1d56\x2d48db\x2d88
586ms gdm.service
544ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-0c3da660\x2df099\x2d43bd\x2da2b8\x2dfbdc321
509ms systemd-backlight@backlight:intel_backlight.service
492ms user@113.service
467ms systemd-udevd.service
Re: How clean are your boots
Sorry to jump in here.
Why does my udisks2.service say:
13.535s udisks2.service
Yours says:
3.784s udisks2.service
Could it be because of this:
Why does my udisks2.service say:
13.535s udisks2.service
Yours says:
3.784s udisks2.service
Could it be because of this:
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root@cihonm:/home/cihonm/Downloads/Brother # lsblk
NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
loop0 7:0 0 81.7M 1 loop /snap/core/4206
loop1 7:1 0 86.5M 1 loop /snap/core/4407
loop2 7:2 0 82M 1 loop /snap/core/4327
loop3 7:3 0 193.1M 1 loop /snap/acestreamplayer/7
sda 8:0 0 1.8T 0 disk
├─sda1 8:1 0 102M 0 part
├─sda2 8:2 0 13.8G 0 part
├─sda3 8:3 0 465.8G 0 part
├─sda4 8:4 0 1K 0 part
├─sda5 8:5 0 16G 0 part [SWAP]
├─sda6 8:6 0 60G 0 part /
├─sda7 8:7 0 60G 0 part
├─sda8 8:8 0 265G 0 part
├─sda9 8:9 0 20.7G 0 part
├─sda10 8:10 0 78.9G 0 part
└─sda11 8:11 0 882.9G 0 part /home
sr0 11:0 1 1024M 0 rom
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Re: How clean are your boots
@dcihon Yeah, you have many partitions. Plus, snaps must be mounted, too. Don't know why they take so long, but then again I don't use them. Flatpaks FTW.
Seriously, that looks like a mess. Really dirty
Seriously, that looks like a mess. Really dirty
- None1975
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Re: How clean are your boots
My boots. Clean and fast. About 8 sec. (system on traditional spinning hard drive (hdd)
Startup time
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systemd-analyze blame
3.821s keyboard-setup.service
3.677s dev-sda1.device
3.273s ufw.service
747ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
546ms systemd-udevd.service
451ms rsyslog.service
451ms atopacct.service
451ms systemd-user-sessions.service
339ms systemd-logind.service
285ms dev-mqueue.mount
272ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
271ms dev-hugepages.mount
243ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
241ms systemd-timesyncd.service
239ms user@1000.service
238ms systemd-remount-fs.service
231ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-f8b6e55b\x2d99dc\x2d4585\x2d8df8\x2d52c55677b22b.service
190ms systemd-modules-load.service
185ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-5540013f\x2d2eed\x2d412e\x2dba2d\x2df4d8bc3af386.swap
177ms systemd-journal-flush.service
176ms networking.service
174ms systemd-journald.service
171ms systemd-sysctl.service
150ms systemd-random-seed.service
136ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
134ms systemd-update-utmp.service
121ms console-setup.service
104ms home.mount
61ms kmod-static-nodes.service
53ms systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
7ms alsa-restore.service
5ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
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systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 2.637s (kernel) + 5.907s (userspace) = 8.545s
OS: Debian 12.4 Bookworm / DE: Enlightenment
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, My config files on github
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, My config files on github
Re: How clean are your boots
Same here, None1975. I'm using an SSD but I suspect your overall hardware is superior to mine.
By comparison Slackware with SvsV takes between 50-60 seconds to boot [both VM and bare metal] but I have never had a boot issue with it, unlike in systemd.
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lysander@psychopig-xxxiii:~$ systemd-analyze blame
5.431s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
1.586s keyboard-setup.service
1.496s systemd-journal-flush.service
1.402s dev-sdc1.device
705ms ufw.service
457ms mnt-01C962C5B094A220.mount
294ms ModemManager.service
217ms systemd-logind.service
209ms sddm.service
180ms lm-sensors.service
171ms systemd-timesyncd.service
165ms virtualbox.service
151ms pppd-dns.service
149ms rsyslog.service
130ms systemd-udevd.service
121ms accounts-daemon.service
120ms systemd-journald.service
116ms NetworkManager.service
114ms upower.service
97ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-48548a61\x2de316\x2d42e3\x2db7c1\x2de074029fa679.swap
95ms networking.service
91ms udisks2.service
90ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
79ms avahi-daemon.service
79ms rtkit-daemon.service
75ms packagekit.service
63ms alsa-restore.service
62ms user@116.service
59ms binfmt-support.service
59ms gdomap.service
55ms user@1000.service
47ms speech-dispatcher.service
47ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
44ms colord.service
42ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-c6406cea\x2db96c\x2d48c1\x2da33f\x2d804c9f611ae6.service
40ms polkit.service
35ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
34ms systemd-modules-load.service
32ms gdm.service
29ms geoclue.service
24ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
23ms dev-mqueue.mount
22ms wpa_supplicant.service
21ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
21ms dev-hugepages.mount
20ms systemd-random-seed.service
18ms systemd-user-sessions.service
16ms systemd-remount-fs.service
16ms kmod-static-nodes.service
15ms home.mount
14ms systemd-update-utmp.service
13ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
13ms hddtemp.service
10ms systemd-sysctl.service
8ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
7ms console-setup.service
7ms minissdpd.service
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lysander@psychopig-xxxiii:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 2.268s (kernel) + 7.915s (userspace) = 10.184s
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Re: How clean are your boots
Using antiX with sysvinit and eudev, slim login and herbstluftwm.
i5 lenovo thinkpad L412 laptop, ssd, 6GB RAM.
Boot time is less than 10 secs.
i5 lenovo thinkpad L412 laptop, ssd, 6GB RAM.
Boot time is less than 10 secs.
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start-t herbstluftwm
8.58
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inxi -Fxz
System: Host: antix1 Kernel: 4.16.2-antix.2-amd64-smp x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 6.3.0
Desktop: herbstluftwm Distro: antiX-17.a2_x64-full keerfa 16 February 2017
Machine: Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 0585W28 v: ThinkPad L412 serial: N/A
Mobo: LENOVO model: 0585W28 serial: N/A BIOS: LENOVO v: 81ET63WW (1.39 ) date: 04/11/2013
Battery: ID-1: BAT1 charge: 21.3 Wh condition: 21.5/47.5 Wh (45%) model: SANYO 42T4751 status: Unknown
CPU: Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i5 M 520 type: MT MCP arch: Nehalem rev: 2 L2 cache: 3072 KiB
flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 19151
Speed: 1312 MHz min/max: 1199/2400 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1264 2: 1363 3: 1354 4: 1432
Graphics: Card-1: Intel Core Processor Integrated Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0
Display: server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: intel resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ironlake Mobile v: 2.1 Mesa 13.0.6 direct render: Yes
Audio: Card-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
bus ID: 00:1b.0
Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.16.2-antix.2-amd64-smp
Network: Card-1: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel bus ID: 03:00.0
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
Card-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI
port: 2000 bus ID: 04:00.0
IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives: HDD Total Size: 111.79 GiB used: 65.99 GiB (59.0%)
ID-1: /dev/sda model: SanDisk_SDSSDA12 size: 111.79 GiB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 109.53 GiB used: 65.99 GiB (60.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 40.0 C mobo: 0.0 C
Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 0
Info: Processes: 156 Uptime: 5m Memory: 7.60 GiB used: 558.6 MiB (7.2%) Init: SysVinit runlevel: 5
Compilers: gcc: 6.3.0 Shell: bash v: 4.4.12 inxi: 3.0.03
antiX with runit - lean and mean.
https://antixlinux.com
https://antixlinux.com
Re: How clean are your boots
mine are cleaning right up after replacing the old 686-pae kernels with amd64 kernels.stevepusser wrote: with backported Debian 4.15 kernels, but they don't appear at all with backported 4.15 Liquorix kernels. Either way, both kernels run just fine for me regardless of whatever pstore is, and others don't report the messages on their machines at all.
and debootstraping new userspace since it's way easier than relinking new libs.
hehe glad you got the double meaning in the titlestevepusser wrote:
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.