Debian User Forums

Even though this topic is marked solved, it seems a few members still want to make comments, so any way, decided to join in here,
First off:

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-04-27 18:43
Inspired by this old post and the recent update on Buster's release status, I would like to re-visit this topic. We are currently in 27th of April, 2018th. Ubuntu 18.04 has just been released, and it's looking more user-friendly than ever.

Then maybe the OP should be using Ubuntu ?
I saw in the thread, "user friendly", and someone said:

""user-friendly" is one of those words i can never write without quotes."

it's just wrong.".... Not just wrong, but it is just a opinion.
For example, in my opinion (not worth much), but any way, Ubuntu is not at all "user" or "admin" friendly, 2nd compared with MS windows, that has to be the most user unfriendly system I have ever tried to use, and it is even more of a nightmare to administer and install. Linux Mint, takes 3rd place, or ties with
Ubuntu, as far as user unfriendly, Another very admin unfriendly system is CentOS, all though once the system administrator gets through the install, it is possible to configure it so that it is relatively user friendly for the end user.
Most "end users" or users are not qualified to be installing any Operating System, I don't care if it is MS windows, Ubuntu, Liunx Mint, or what ever.
Debian can be installed and setup to be very easy to use, so that it is a extremely "user freindly", how ever it is not something just anybody can do, the person installing it should be capable of installing and administrating the OS, other wise they are going to set up what could be a very "user unfriendly" system.
So with all that said, if the OP or anyone else feels Debian is to complicated for the to install and setup, and they are unable to set up a "user friendly" system
then they should use what ever is easier for them, or find a qualified technician
to install and set up the system.
Setting up a "user friendly" system also depends on who the "user" or "users" will be, for example in a office situation, and the secretaries are the main users, all you really need to do is give them a menu, with the options to use the programs they need to use, you can even configure the Debian system to look and feel like windows, if that will keep the secretaries (end users) happy....
Then recently I read somewhere here on this forum, a link to some article about MS windows now including Linux and even Debian, if one chooses, I don't know how true that is, nor exactly how they work that, don't care really, I guess it is some kind of Virtual environment or something, but heck, If your end users must have certain programs that can only be run on Windows, it is not that hard to set up a Virtual Machine, and have Windows as a guest system, one could even include starting the VM in the menu options they give the users. Example: "Start-windows",... the user just selects and "clicks" it, and the windows guest starts up,...
My granddaughter , now almost 7, thinks Debian is very user friendly, and it is , for her, the desk top has all her "icons", all she has to do is click the one she wants, it could be a game, or if she wants FaceBook, there is a icon for that, the browser (Fire fox-esr), she just clicks the icon,...nothing complicated.
The point is , Debian can be as "user friendly" as the system admin wants to make it,...
And if you are not qualified to install and set up a "user freindly' system, then don't, find someone qualified to do that for you, or take the time to read and study, and then you can install and setup what ever OS you want, and you can make it as user friendly as you need.
The Debian developers give you a good OS, but how can they possibly decide
what setup and configuration will be best for the "users", this is something the system admin needs to do, according to the "users" needs and limitations.

jibberjabber wrote: My granddaughter , now almost 7, thinks Debian is very user friendly, and it is , for her, the desk top has all her "icons", all she has to do is click the one she wants, it could be a game, or if she wants FaceBook, there is a icon for that, the browser (Fire fox-esr), she just clicks the icon,...nothing complicated.

I love it. Reminds me of when I was three and had to show my dad how to boot into Windows 3.1 through DOS XD
Now we have examples of actual children who could manage a desktop and command line.
With that, I'll digress.

jibberjabber wrote:So with all that said, if the OP or anyone else feels Debian is to complicated for the to install and setup, and they are unable to set up a "user friendly" system
then they should use what ever is easier for them, or find a qualified technician
to install and set up the system.

Wheelerof4te wrote:I don't seek something more user-friendly for myself. I can use and modify to my liking plain Debian just fine.

Another one of those posters who doesn't read the thread, but likes to write anything. Plus says that Ubuntu isn't user-friendly...As @debiman said, Debian isn't user friendly, it's user-centric. It does not try to be user friendly. Howewer, Ubuntu, Mint and the like are very easy for newcomers, that's why they are...user-friendly.
I have marked this thread solved. So, if you have something to add, please read the entire thread first.

Not even walking on two legs is "user-friendly" as toddlers make several attempts before they succeed. At first, they are also very unsteady until their brain learns how to handle the multitude of muscles involved in walking upright and standing upright.

Knowledge is empowerment, but knowledge, comes at a hefty price.

Bulkley wrote:Debian is not supposed to be user-friendly. What it does is provide basic infrastructure that can be built upon while sticking to principles. Users can take Debian's infrastructure and adapt it as they wish. Take a look at this old chart. About 40% of the chart is taken up with Debian based derivatives. I call that success. (Yes, the chart needs to be updated.)

I would say Debian is more work than Ubuntu, but I have read a lot of articles about Ubuntu 18.04 having more trouble with stability and the upgrade process.

I just installed a Debian 9 based distro because of the small ISO size of some 334 MB.

Someone call Kel'Thuzad. And bring in meat wagons, too.

Wheelerof4te wrote:Someone call Kel'Thuzad. And bring in meat wagons, too.

You live in a world of your own?

Someone missed the necro joke.
Anyway, this is marked solved now, so whatever.

Wheelerof4te wrote:Someone missed the necro joke.
Anyway, this is marked solved now, so whatever.

Now I'm going insane! I though this forum was about Debian support and not about death rap or monster cartoons.

I am clearly at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Oh yeah, the problem is solved about making Debian more user friendly, it's called Manjaro.

None1975 wrote:

Yes and if something goes wrong the whole thing goes up in flames.

That is why smart indians make good back ups, and keep them some where else , that is safe,and fire proof.
The problem is not that Debian is not user friendly, it actually is, but it chooses who it's friends will be,
The system administrator, or who ever installs and sets the system up to start with, should be somewhat more advanced then your average yogi, end user,....
Then the system admin can setup the desktop environment , even if they choose to use a window manager for the environment, how user friendly it is all depends on how the system administrator sets things up, they can make it very simple, give the secretaries the menu options they need for work, and nothing more, that might confuse them.
A example, and I gave it before, but every one laughed at it, any way,... the first OS my grand daughter used, and she started at 3 years old, was/is Debian, I installed it to a old laptop I had. She quickly figured out how to click the Icons, or menu item, start a game she liked, or open her "tux paint" program,etc., if a 3 year old finds the environment user friendly, I do not understand why so many adults consider it not user friendly,... The problem is not Debian, the problem is these clowns that try to install and configure a user friendly environment, and they do not yet have the technical know how to even properly install the system to start with.
Yes, my grand daughter would never have been able to do that either, installing and setting up a user friendly system, is not something your average 3 year old, nor yogi end user can do.
Making Debian more user friendly, is something the system administrator can do, if they really have the ability and qualifications to be administrating a OS,installing it, etc.
Side note: Now my granddaughter is older, 6 or 7, and in school, but the point is it really was not that hard to set up a simple environment for her, one that was/is very user-friendly, as she learns and gets more experience, she can easily add new items to her menu, etc,... it still is a very user friendly laptop.

Yes, my Debian 9 system froze yesterday and I had to pull the plug on it. When I restarted I only got a file system not recognized or something like that and the recovery mode did not work either. I was in the evening and all the computer shops was closed, no were to run to.

I looked around the house and saw CD lying on the carpet in a spare room in the dust. I tried it and it had Zorin OS 9 on it from 2014. I installed it and made the massive update and now my system works again.

Granted I think I have some hardware problem causing all the freezes, but Ubuntu is indented for idiots like me. It's idiot proof, right from the installation in the beginning.

Last night I tried to install Debian 9 with the net installer and made some wrong choice and ended up with no desktop environment, went back to Ubuntu, no worries.

That Apache is a long ways from home if he's in a tipi. Maybe just visiting?

stevepusser wrote:That Apache is a long ways from home if he's in a tipi. Maybe just visiting?

His definitely of the reservation!

debiandonder wrote: Granted I think I have some hardware problem causing all the freezes, but Ubuntu is indented for idiots like me. It's idiot proof, right from the installation in the beginning.

Whatever floats your boat. I started out with Ubuntu myself, but grew tired of bugs. They weren't "user friendly" at all.

[qu="Hallvor"][quote="d
Granted I think I have some hardware problem causing all the freezes, but Ubuntu is indented for idiots like me. It's idiot proof, right from the installation in the beginning.
[/quote]

Whatever floats your boat. I started out with Ubuntu myself, but grew tired of bugs. They weren't "user friendly" at all. [/quote]

Yes, this. Buggy unstable systems are not 'user friendly'. I started with Debian back in the late 90's. When Ubuntu came along, I thought "cool, Debian with shinier newer software". But it was always kind of not quite there, always a work in progress, always just a bit sloppy. The whole GnomeShell then Unity thing caused me to jump ship, and I came back to straight up Debian. Buggy, unstable, sloppy software is not 'user friendly', no matter how shiny and new the programs are, or how many options they take away from you, or the happy GUI settings programs. BUT...

Whatever floats your boat.

My boat lost a engine, namely my graphics card broke and I now have to rely in the AMD APU only, with very basic graphics.

I don't care for the pretty KDE look anymore, it's pretty but to slow on my system.

I installed Lubuntu 18.04. It was so easy, but I resisted the urge to suck my thumb.