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Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-16 20:35
by Wheelerof4te
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gno ... eview.html
Dedoimedo strikes again! And...misses things. Like settings in GNOME's Files:
abstract layout that feels naked and simplistic on the desktop. And rather useless. You cannot create icons on the desktop. You cannot create new files in the file manager. There's no settings menu for the file manager.

Sure there is, just it requires, you know, logic. And the knowledge of things you are reviewing. And there are more gems, like "only one way to launch applications". Let's count them:
1. Super+a+click,
2. Super, then type, followed by quick Return/Enter key,
3. Super, then clicking on the Favourites icon. Oh, and
4. Open Terminal, type the command, press Enter.
But any sane person will be happy with just two. Let's move on:
You cannot add icons or shortcuts to the top panel.

Ups, so the first 4 ways to open my programs weren't enough? Am I opening programs just for the sake of them being open, or am I actually using them? As for other files, you have file manager, which you can set to auto-start.
No window min and max buttons - more smartphone nonsense. You need to right-click to invoke the min/max actions. 100% more effort than normal desktops. A waste of time. No show desktop button.

"Because everything I need is on the desktop, lol" If you are staring at your desktop instead of using applications, you're doing it wrong, man. Here comes more goodness:
If you wish to have a classic desktop, and that would be: panel with icons, application menu, show desktop button, and application windows buttons, not too much, right, then you need to invest a lot of time and energy to get this in order. Gnome 3 makes it exceptionally difficult to achieve these simple things

Strawman argument. "My way of doing things must be the rigth way, so if something isn't like that, it must be bad". There are extensions, all in one place. Use them?
To be able to list folders before files in Nautilus, you need to be familiar with the dconf command line utility or install dconf-editor, a Windows registry-like utility that allows you to make changes to the Gnome schemas

I don't know, I haven't touched it, ever. And I still could sort folders before files fine.
The only point I can agree with him is the performance. Other points are clearly off the mark. And if GNOME can solve that issue, it will be my main DE again.

This self-proclaimed reviewer has been in (rather undeserved) spotlight over the years. His love for KDE is matched only by his hatred for GNOME. And Debian, it seems. If I were him, I would first research what I'm reviewing and focus hard not to let my bias cloud my judgement.

1.5/5 review.
EDIT: Previous title was kinda silly, just like his review. Changed it to be more suited for discussion.
EDIT2: https://i.redd.it/25lhuavjse411.png
Genious.

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-17 02:10
by Bulkley
The beauty of free software is that there is always another way to do what you want to do. If I don't like a particular piece of software, I use another. If Dedoimedo doesn't like Gnome 3 there are plenty of options.

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-17 03:25
by steve_v
Huh, pretty much sums up my experience with GNOME.
Over-simplified UI: Check.
Lack of customisation: Check.
Huge areas of wasted space, enormous UI elements: Check.
No desktop icons: Check.
Hardcoded paths and ridiculous "templates" thing: Check.
Inconsistent style, particularly window titles: Check.
Need external tools to fix touch-centric UI: Check.
Need extensions to restore basic functionality: Check.
Horrible performance: Check.

It's not a good review, and the reviewer clearly didn't try very hard to get used to the GNOME workflow... but a lot of the complaints are exactly the reasons I can't stand GNOME.

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-17 06:59
by debiman
Dedoimedo seems to have totally embraced the journalistic principle of "bad news is always good news".

that siad, i don't much care for gnome's "configurability" either...

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-17 08:59
by Funkygoby
Internet is a pile of poo.
Good luck finding actual quality content through google.

I miss the internet v1 made of ugly pure-html personals websites actually providing valuable real-life experience (tile laying, bike maintenance).

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-17 09:13
by Head_on_a_Stick
I agree with everything that Dodoemodo bloke says — GNOME is awesome! :mrgreen:

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-18 19:36
by n_hologram
My opinions on Gnome were artfully illustrated in the first picture (which I hope is a default wallpaper): a ceiling of opulent butts.
https://www.dedoimedo.com/images/comput ... teaser.jpg


Dodoemodo wrote:...a decade-old laptop with anything other than Gnome works better than a contemporary model with Gnome, and you feel the sluggishness with every little thing you do. It's life-sapping. The more you multi-task the worse it gets.

Redhat has the finances and street cred to pull off a sustainable project. A pretty, oversimple UI is more marketable than one geared towards performance and customization.

The review is a user perspective on a corporate utility. It's a pretty common sentiment.

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-20 03:34
by pendrachken
Wheelerof4te wrote:Quote:
abstract layout that feels naked and simplistic on the desktop. And rather useless. You cannot create icons on the desktop. You cannot create new files in the file manager. There's no settings menu for the file manager.

Sure there is, just it requires, you know, logic. And the knowledge of things you are reviewing. And there are more gems, like "only one way to launch applications". Let's count them:
1. Super+a+click,
2. Super, then type, followed by quick Return/Enter key,
3. Super, then clicking on the Favourites icon. Oh, and
4. Open Terminal, type the command, press Enter.
But any sane person will be happy with just two. Let's move on:


Yeah, super intuitive. Let me read a book on how to use my desktop to launch programs after I install it. Oh wait, I can't read man pages or launch a browser because I can't launch applications like the terminal or a browser like I could for 30 years prior to this

Ups, so the first 4 ways to open my programs weren't enough? Am I opening programs just for the sake of them being open, or am I actually using them? As for other files, you have file manager, which you can set to auto-start.


Yeah, I have some programs I open and close multiple times throughout the day, why would I rather click a single link that is on an always visible part of my workspace rather than some arcane key combo + typing the name / hunting for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


"Because everything I need is on the desktop, lol" If you are staring at your desktop instead of using applications, you're doing it wrong, man. Here comes more goodness:
Quote:
If you wish to have a classic desktop, and that would be: panel with icons, application menu, show desktop button, and application windows buttons, not too much, right, then you need to invest a lot of time and energy to get this in order. Gnome 3 makes it exceptionally difficult to achieve these simple things

Strawman argument. "My way of doing things must be the rigth way, so if something isn't like that, it must be bad". There are extensions, all in one place. Use them?


1: everything I need IS on my desktop. Commonly used applications, shortcuts to commonly used folders in my FS ( so I don't have to open my file manager AND then navigate the shortcuts to the place I want ), as well as some storage hierarchy that is super easily accessible. Get a common theme here? Here's a hint everything is in the open and easy to get to with single clicks.

2: Every other desktop that isn't a mere window manager ( and actually most of the window managers too ) have either stayed close to the same menu + taskbar for the last 30 years, or tried to go the minimalist shit that GNOME did, realized it was a horrible mistake and went back. GNOME on the other hand seems to be doubling down in the retardation in hopes it causes the poor bastards that use it ( and maybe everyone near them from the flailing ) to have brain damage to drive up adoption.

2A: If your design is reviled, especially by a significant portion of your prior loyal fanbase, somethings is wrong. If 5-6 other projects keep doing what was done for 30+ years, that works without any significant issues no less, and your project refuses to support that style, actively sabotaging it even, maybe just maybe your project management is shit. It's not a strawman, a classic desktop is what users want because it WORKS. Hell, MicroSoft of all companies even learned from their mistakes when it seems GNOME can't.

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-20 09:26
by MALsPa
GNOME Shell sounds so awful when I read about it! Lol. Yet, I find that I enjoy using it. Whatever, not everyone requires a "classic" setup to be able to work efficiently (shrugs). I'm one who thinks that GNOME Shell is a lot better than the old GNOME 2, but I never felt that GNOME 2 was all that great, anyway.

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-06-20 14:55
by Zjho
As a regular Gnome user i very much take steve_v's point of needing extensions to restore basic functionality, an upfront hurdle about equivalent to scrambling for proprietary graphics drivers a lot of new arrivals to Debian have to do :?
Doesn't take that long to get Gnome 3.28 (Debian Buster) and its file browser to look very similar to Gnome 3.22 (Debian Stretch).
Not difficult to guess why Gnome devs might want to gamble on broadening their Desktop Environment more aggressively into tablets/smartphones now Unity is coming to an end and Microsoft has lost ground on smartphones. Android's market position might seem unassailable but there is a dearth of diversity that won't appeal at all levels, individual users to Governments.

Re: Another GNOME "expert review"

PostPosted: 2018-08-17 05:29
by slayde
Disclosure - I just switched from Gnome 3 to Cinnamon, but still have some attraction to Gnome 3.

I guess I'm a little puzzled by what appears to be a fierce affection for the "desktop". I find it superfluous, which I decided when using Windows 10. The dash, all-apps list, and the search facility provide efficient access to apps, It's the same in Win 10 and now I only use its desktop to dump recently-acquired docs for later review, or to store docs like my church newsletter that periodically get replaced by newer versions. The basic reason that I use Cinnamon now is that it's more responsive and its hotcorners give me new ways to access apps/workspaces. I also find it much easier to move windows among workspaces if I need to. If Gnome's panels had more of the built-in functionality of Cinnamon's (and if panel extensions weren't so twitchy) and Gnome was a little more peppy, I might have stuck with it - I REALLY liked the "all apps" listing and the search. My move certainly had nothing to do with the desktop as that thing lurking underneath everything. I have no need for it. I have the Cinnamon panel autohiding at the top and I run my apps maximized for better visibility (old eyes, ya see).

But, of course, we all do it different, I suppose...