Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests?

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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby debiman » 2018-08-01 19:46

kcin wrote:Thanks for the input once again, I've made a brand new theme named futurePrototype, will make a full theme if it's chosen either with old/new logos.

super, i hope this is enough to make it eligible for consideration for the next release (please understand that the people that decide these things are unlikely to go hunting the web for good suggestions).

and i do hope the powers that be will consider modenising the swirl.
I personally like the outer right version (the pinkish one, same shape i quoted earlier) most, because it is recognizably close to the current swirl, but also has the "D" in it.
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby kcin » 2018-08-01 20:36

Thanks. I doubt a logo change will happen for now, at least for next release but I'll just put it out there. What's interesting about the current swirl is that it uses a default old Adobe Illustrator brush. I still like it, but seems a bit outdated and loses most of the small rough detail on resize.

Image
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby sunrat » 2018-08-02 00:46

kcin wrote:A different concept altogether.

Image


I also like this one. Maybe the Picasso sketch inspired you here?
So far you have posted wallpapers, are you planning to design a full theme as well?
I doubt Debian will change the swirl any time soon, it's rather iconic and still looks good imo. Perhaps you should provide wallpapers with the original swirl as well.
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby jibberjabber » 2018-08-02 01:10

kcin wrote:Thanks for the input once again, I've made a brand new theme named futurePrototype, will make a full theme if it's chosen either with old/new logos.

Sounds like the OP plans to, if it is chosen.....
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Artwork/Requirements
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby HuangLao » 2018-08-02 01:21

sunrat wrote:
kcin wrote:A different concept altogether.

Image



I like this design the best, but not the change to the logo.

A few thoughts: changing a recognizable logo is often a bad idea, especially just to be modern. Imagine if McD's changed from rounded "golden archs" to angular M, or if Nike changed the "swoosh" to be an actual "wing", Apple changed to a watermelon....

Also, the debian swirl is a play on the old Taoist Yin/Yang Tai Chi symbol, using that idea you definitely don't want to "cut off a section" even if to create a letter. It's bad energy/Feng Shui, and the brush stroke style pays homage to Chinese calligraphy.

My two cents....

Ref: https://www.tcmworld.org/what-is-tcm/yin-yang-theory/
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=taiji+tu+swir ... &ia=images
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taijitu
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby kcin » 2018-08-02 03:04

HuangLao wrote:I like this design the best, but not the change to the logo.

A few thoughts: changing a recognizable logo is often a bad idea, especially just to be modern. Imagine if McD's changed from rounded "golden archs" to angular M, or if Nike changed the "swoosh" to be an actual "wing", Apple changed to a watermelon....

Also, the debian swirl is a play on the old Taoist Yin/Yang Tai Chi symbol, using that idea you definitely don't want to "cut off a section" even if to create a letter. It's bad energy/Feng Shui, and the brush stroke style pays homage to Chinese calligraphy.

My two cents....

Ref: https://www.tcmworld.org/what-is-tcm/yin-yang-theory/
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=taiji+tu+swir ... &ia=images
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taijitu


Thanks interesting ideas. I'm actually curious did the original author say the swirl is a play on Yin/Yang/Chinese calligraphy? However I'm pretty certain McDonald's, Nike & Apple have all had logo changes to modernize throughout the years, while still keeping certain elements similar. Other successful companies have had entire brand and identity changes as well.

Changing a logo would be a very major decision, I don't think it will happen anytime soon. But perhaps in the future, mostly just an idea at this point. If my design is chosen, I will make a complete theme with the new or old logos as I mentioned before.
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby debiman » 2018-08-02 05:52

HuangLao wrote:changing a recognizable logo is often a bad idea, especially just to be modern. Imagine if McD's changed from rounded "golden archs" to angular M, or if Nike changed the "swoosh" to be an actual "wing", Apple changed to a watermelon....
all these logo's went through changes over the year; the trick is to modernise it, yet keep it recognizable. ideally the consumer won't even notice, it just "seems smoother":
https://www.fineprintart.com/art/histor ... apple-logo
https://inkbotdesign.com/history-mcdonalds-logo/

Also, the debian swirl is a play on the old Taoist Yin/Yang Tai Chi symbol, using that idea you definitely don't want to "cut off a section" even if to create a letter. It's bad energy/Feng Shui
no, it's not.
and frankly i see NO resemblence to the yin/yang swirl. none.
it's buzz lightyear's beard swirl. toy story, not tao.

to summarize, i think debian's logo is in dire need of modernisation, while still keeping it recognizable.

it seems neither the color (i'd prefer a more vivid shade of pink/red) nor the shape have changed at all since 1999:
https://www.debian.org/logos/
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLogo
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby kcin » 2018-08-02 11:29

Similar idea as before.
Image
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby golinux » 2018-08-02 12:57

debiman wrote:it seems neither the color (i'd prefer a more vivid shade of pink/red) nor the shape have changed at all since 1999:
Oh, the horror of it! :roll:
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby kcin » 2018-08-02 15:58

Some minor tweaks and no eye like the first one, looks better i think.
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby HuangLao » 2018-08-02 20:59

debiman wrote:
HuangLao wrote:changing a recognizable logo is often a bad idea, especially just to be modern. Imagine if McD's changed from rounded "golden archs" to angular M, or if Nike changed the "swoosh" to be an actual "wing", Apple changed to a watermelon....
all these logo's went through changes over the year; the trick is to modernise it, yet keep it recognizable. ideally the consumer won't even notice, it just "seems smoother":
https://www.fineprintart.com/art/histor ... apple-logo
https://inkbotdesign.com/history-mcdonalds-logo/

Also, the debian swirl is a play on the old Taoist Yin/Yang Tai Chi symbol, using that idea you definitely don't want to "cut off a section" even if to create a letter. It's bad energy/Feng Shui
no, it's not.
and frankly i see NO resemblence to the yin/yang swirl. none.
it's buzz lightyear's beard swirl. toy story, not tao.

to summarize, i think debian's logo is in dire need of modernisation, while still keeping it recognizable.

it seems neither the color (i'd prefer a more vivid shade of pink/red) nor the shape have changed at all since 1999:
https://www.debian.org/logos/
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLogo



HAHAHA...You need to go back and review the origins of Unix/Linux and Debian etc... top programmers/developers all utilize Taoist concepts, even the box you are using is based on the binary code of the I-Ching. So your comment is laughable at best. I guess next your going to suggest that buzz's chin swirl; is hair, a cleft chin? Disney animators stated the chin swirl was to represent a galaxy ie: it was an easter egg..... Are you not aware the logo was to come out of a jinnis bottle?
https://www.debian.org/vote/1999/vote_0004
https://linux.slashdot.org/story/99/06/ ... ooses-logo

Yes, I've been around a long time. :)

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taijitu#/ ... uiqian.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... deways.svg
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby golinux » 2018-08-02 22:07

Youth is full of opinion based on nothing yet knows everything . . . or so they think. The internet has only made it more glaringly obvious.
Last edited by golinux on 2018-08-03 00:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby HuangLao » 2018-08-02 23:50

golinux wrote:Youth is full of opinion based on nothing yet knows everything . . . or so they think. The internet has only made it more glaringly pbvious.


sign of the times...
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby kcin » 2018-08-03 01:34

So I was looking more into the history about the debian logo and I found this post with exact steps about reproducing the debian logo. Curious to try I installed Illustrator CS2 found the default Charcoal Rough Brush, and within my second try I got a nearly identical copy of Debian logo. I think that solves the origin of the original logo, the idea was a spiral with 8 segments and just a default brush.

Left version is official, right version is the brush. You could probably get it much closer if you wanted.
Image

EDIT: Kind of interesting at 0.82 pnt and with a few resizes/turns I can get it so very close, I'd say 98%. Could be slight differences with the software version since CS2 is much newer then what was used in 1999.
Image

Anyways I thought it was interesting to follow the process of the original design.
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Re: Making a Debian Buster theme proposal, thoughts/suggests

Postby Lysander » 2018-08-03 08:05

That solves the mystery of how it was made, but not why it's a spiral. I personally think it's ludicrous and rather amusing that the logo for Debian, the OS that prides itself on libre software, was built from a default Adobe brush.

EDIT: Is this a copyright violation? I've checked this thread, but the artwork is the brush, so it doesn't really help.

As to why it's a spiral, this post will help you:

https://www.debian.org/vote/1999/vote_0004

and this article:

http://stray-notes.blogspot.com/2011/04 ... swirl.html

The designer, Raul Silva, never made any public statements about the logo's symbolism


Because he stole it from Adobe?

The short answer is that no-one knows for sure why it's a spiral. The reason for the uncertainty is because of the lamp that was part of the original proposal. I think the logo comes from two sources of inspiration. Firstly, the swirl on Buzz Lightyear's chin, which the designer has also used to represent the smoke coming from a genie's lamp. The idea here, maybe, is that Debian is a 'magic' OK with the swirl also representing 'magic smoke'.

Your designs are coming on very well, the subtle and abstract dachshund was excellent. I would caution against trying to change the default Debian logo and font though, I can't see there being much uptake on those, there are way too many traditionalists in the conservative Debian camp for that.
Last edited by Lysander on 2018-08-04 12:19, edited 6 times in total.
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