i386 is dies slowly

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i386 is dies slowly

Postby oui » 2019-04-10 21:33

Hi

i386 is dies slowly. But in the past it did gives us exciting goodies like adobe air and scratch2 or xvidcap or a lot of browser based on webkit like luakit, midori, vimprobable, xombrero, qtweb etc. (as well as wine 32 ;-) !).

is the installation from an OLD i386 lib package (for ex. jessie, jessie was good and highly compatible with a lot of old solutions) in a modern Debian installation like testing Buster possible?

what is to do to try it (to install, to install the software, and to start the execute command)?
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby stevepusser » 2019-04-11 00:29

Most or all of those are still available both 32 and 64-bit, so I don't know why you want to possibly break your system.
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby oui » 2019-04-11 06:48

you can yet install xvidcap or vimprobable or scratch2 for linux, etc ?
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby oui » 2019-04-12 20:03

Hi stevepusser, thank you for your interest. You did right «most or all are still available»!

Yes and no, because you have now heavy barriers in new Debian. I dit try as you recommand hopping you are right. Google did look for me for an Official Debian page because Debian did effective find an adequate package for me in ... sid. The official Debian page did recommand to add ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports. ok all right...

After that, you make an update and receive an error message in German (so I reproduce not the all text, only the ending error code: NO_PUBKEY DA1B2CEA81DCBC61) and continues with the last comment (I let it in German as the word are about the same in English): Das Depot etc ist nicht signiert!

That is not really «most or all are still available» (it is probably most easy to convert Redhat packages to Debian and use dpkg and apt after that as to try to solve in the next minutes the new Debian barrieres to use that what you did use the last 10 years in other Debian releases :-)) !)
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby milomak » 2019-04-12 21:22

some of those packages are not even available in sid on amd64

i think the better question you have to ask is are the more recent different versions of the software i used to use

i mean take adobe air. it must be years since that was needed at all.
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby Funkygoby » 2019-04-14 09:58

I don't understand. Is there any package i386 only ?
If you need an old package (xombrero), it is available for i386 and amd64 so no problem here. The real issue is that you end up with obsolete package with potential security flaws.

Your problem is related to obsolete package, not architecture, not rpm vs deb.

Also, I would to like to see a link to this "Official Debian page". And I am pretty sure the error message language depends on you locales, not the repository.
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby CwF » 2019-04-14 13:29

milomak wrote:i mean take adobe air. it must be years since that was needed at all.


Well now I know there was such a thing on Linux...Unfortunate for me, I have audio hardware that uses this air crap to access the programming of the unit. I knew back then this would bite me, one more reason to maintain an XP.
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby milomak » 2019-04-14 18:23

CwF wrote:
milomak wrote:i mean take adobe air. it must be years since that was needed at all.


Well now I know there was such a thing on Linux...Unfortunate for me, I have audio hardware that uses this air crap to access the programming of the unit. I knew back then this would bite me, one more reason to maintain an XP.

but that's an understandable issue of technology and standards moving on.

if you had kept whatever debian distro was around at that time of xp, it would be the same no?
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby stevepusser » 2019-04-14 19:54

I can also run i386 Linux software on my 64-bit system, as well as a lot of 32 and 64 Windows software using Wine and more using virtual machines, so I still can't see the problem.
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby CwF » 2019-04-14 22:51

Yep, lots of good stuff gets abandoned. Thanks to debian and its vm's, I have saved a few tech dead ends.

I did build my first i386 debian image over a year ago (finally) and have taken it to buster with the current wine. I intended to get it on real i386 hardware and still haven't taken the time. On 64b systems is does real good. I've left the image on an X58 lately and it rocks. It makes me think i386 vm's might be useful. I skipped the generation using XP until 2016, then amd64 debian.

Overall, it's good to keep your own archive!
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby milomak » 2019-04-15 22:57

CwF wrote:Yep, lots of good stuff gets abandoned.


and i think for the sake of the op it is worth noting that it is not a debian decision to do so.

so i386 is alive and well. it may be just that the packages the op wants to use have not lasted the test of time. and that is not a debian fault.

edit - if i may add an anecdote. i used cairo-dock for sometime without issue. but recently on intel and amdgpu drivers it has started to have issues. when i went to the site i saw it was last updated in 2014. so i asked myself which is more reasonable:
i) ask people today to try and make backward compatible to something that was last built in 2014, or
ii) look for a cairo-dock alternative

that doesn't mean amd64 is dying slowly
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby oui » 2019-04-20 21:37

Hi

I did read today above answer, and i am astonish about some parts of the answers:

milomak wrote:if you had kept whatever debian distro was around at that time of xp, it would be the same no?


the backward compatibility from M$ is high! M$ is about his risponsability is aware of its responsibility to millions of developers who do not work for M$, but for themselves, or for an employer or customer! Enterprises will not permanently reinstall their software («do never touch a running system!»). Your argument is absolutely wrong...

milomak wrote:i mean take adobe air. it must be years since that was needed at all.


even the didactic software «scratch2» makes this necessary in thousands of schools otherwise you have to stay with Windows! Adobe did not retire the rights to use the already published releases of air but only decide not to continue to develop them for Linux as far as I know... Thousands for schools with often 250 ... 1000 students, they are a lot of people deprivate by Linux of NEEDING tools being fully accessible and normal in Windows! Yes, of course, their is an online version. But how will use in classroom open internet :oops: !

stevepusser wrote:I can also run i386 Linux software on my 64-bit system, as well as a lot of 32 and 64 Windows software using Wine and more using virtual machines, so I still can't see the problem.


as computer freak and intensive forum user, you can make without toil a lot of operations not being possible by other, and absolutely not in the environment of a classroom in the education from children and young people!

The world population have soon 10 billion people (milliard?). an enormous quantity has yet no screen excepted TV. an enormous quantity would find old hardware if it would be usable but irresponsible developers and decision-makers remove the necessary compatibility!

And no reason at all: i386 is now a separate part of Linux so or so! You need in all case a compatibility kit and no need the children has to wear the same size as adult people: the i386 compatibility kit can stay as it is or was at the time of Jessie. It is a matter of intelligence of developers and decision makers (and not how can I move this unseemly thing away from me)!
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby CwF » 2019-04-21 04:59

oui wrote: an enormous quantity would find old hardware if it would be usable but irresponsible developers and decision-makers remove the necessary compatibility!

You are absolutely right.
Still, keep your own archive, all we can do.
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Re: i386 is dies slowly

Postby millpond » 2019-04-22 23:34

Backwards compatibility is a serious issue with Linux, and probably one of the largest issues dealing with its general acceptance. Another issue is the format of the architecture, which has no set standards, except, perhaps for Posix.

The idea that something must be eliminated from the system just because it is 'unattended' is absurd. Not everything left alone is a 'security issue' and in many cases I prefer older releases. Especially with the Win platform. And to see very useful but deprecated programs just disappear upon updates is something I find nothing less than evil.

I keep archives of Wheezy, Stretch, and now Buster/Sid. (As well as CPAN!). I just started adding the source files to Buster, so that will guarantee some extra protection to whatever the future may bring.

Which will hopefully be something multilib and microkernel.

Hiurd?????

PS - Milliard is not used in American English.
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