Is it just me...

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Is it just me...

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2019-07-10 06:58

...or does it get worse with each release.

I blame the education system and social media.
Also 'safety' culture and better healthcare - mostly they used to get weeded out....
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby sunrat » 2019-07-10 07:14

Does what get worse? If you mean world government and "the system", I agree. Many of our current leaders are dangerous, bumbling fools. The poor get less educated and sicker while the fat cats go buy a new Merc or yacht every year. Egalitarianism is a fantasy. Political correctness is going crazy. WTF is "cultural appropriation"? We used to be encouraged to embrace other cultures.

If you mean Debian, I think Buster is a solid release and I've seen a few people say it's really good. For me as a KDE user, Buster with Plasma 5.14 is definitely the best ever because Plasma 5.14 is the best KDE ever. I've only dabbled with it so far but had no issues and it functions very smoothly.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2019-07-10 07:33

Neither, but I probably should have posted in 'Forum Stuff'.

Anyway, since we're in general
Egalitarianism is a fantasy.
True that - the lazy bastards and idle snowflakes will never contribute equally to the rest.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby sunrat » 2019-07-10 07:48

Aaah, you meant the does the forum get worse? For sure!
There's a flood of help vampires lately. I just spent ten minutes drafting a post to our latest serial vampire telling them to walk before running and to learn to help themselves a bit more, only to find the OP topic was deleted when I hit submit.

I'm considering moving out of town and becoming a professional beach bum because modern society is so exasperating. The human race will cease to exist within a few generations because of irreversible and accelerating climate change but I doubt I'll be around that long anyway.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby Soul Singin' » 2019-07-10 08:48

sunrat wrote:Aaah, you meant the does the forum get worse? For sure!

Once upon a time, the senior members of this forum would flame you out of here if you did not do your homework first. They expected you to study the issue before asking a question.

Then someone decided that we must all be nice to the newbies and now the forum gets flooded with questions like:

hack3rcon wrote:Hello.
Why with "sudo" command some tasks can't be done? For example:
Code: Select all
$ sudo cat /dev/null > sources.list
bash: sources.list: Permission denied

Thank you.

sudo cat /dev/null > sources.list . ??? . Seriously? . :roll:
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby sunrat » 2019-07-10 09:16

I skimmed over that one when they posted but it is hilarious. :lol:
That's the help vampire I mentioned above and subtly suggested in several posts today they should learn to walk before running and brush up on their search-fu skills. Judging from a post today in their Nvidia driver thread, their system is cactus now due to bad repo management.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2019-07-10 09:48

I think it's because Debian is getting easier with each release. For example, the new installer is much more easier than Debian's main installer, at least for total newbs.
Other reason might be the willingness of some of us here, myself included, to help them. We could go full Arch-style and just ignore the trivial questions. Or we can continue being newbie-friendly.
And the last reason is that some Youtubers started recommending Debian over Ubuntu to new Linux users (over the recent 32-lib fiasco), so we get a flood of new *buntu users now.
Last edited by Wheelerof4te on 2019-07-10 10:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby pylkko » 2019-07-10 10:15

There are different levels of knowlege on help forums. There is the high level people, they are the kind that know much, and either they don't have time to answer all questions, or they get annoyed with copy pasting stuff from the pertinent man entry and skip stupid questions. Then there are those that don't know stuff and ask, sometimes they are out of their league and cannot figure it out independently without investing considerable amoutn of effort, sometimes they are vampires. Then there is an intermediate level of people, that have for whatever reason already invested enough time to have solved their personal problems. These people then feel that they get fame and respect if they solve many problems. This "respect and fame" is the reason some forums have these kind of merit systems where question askers can vote for better solutions from the pool of offered solutions. These people often hunt for dumb questions because they are easy to solve and because it helps them personally in the process of learning about the issue (given that they already have solved all issues that relate to their own personal ways of using computers, or whatever the topic of the forum may be). You can see this, in things like every time some one asks again about how to install wifi firmware, half the forum comes to reply, but if someone comes along and asks about how to use a serial connection to a microcontroller, or something more hard, no discussion.

So what happens when an operating system slowly drifts from one which is notoriously hard to install and configure to one with a ready images and graphical installers and so on? The total amount of expert users that actually read the manuals stays the same, but the amount of other people increases dramatically. If you go to equivalent discussion boards of OS like FreeBSD or gentoo that are not so user friendly, you probably find newbie flaming and ignoring much more (kind of like with Debian in the past).
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-07-10 12:56

No, it is not just you, I notice a general deterioration of many "skills", especially it seems,
the ability to use logic, read and write, follow instructions, and more. I do understand that language differences, and machine translators are limited, thus the grammar, etc may be poor,
Post by dilberts_left_nut » 2019-07-10 01:58
...or does it get worse with each release.

I blame the education system and social media.
Also 'safety' culture and better healthcare - mostly they used to get weeded out...

Yes, I also think that has something to do with it, I am certain.
I don't think that each new Debian release is directly involved, but it is a "cycle", IE: It seems to get worse with every new year, as well.
I could go on, but have chores to do, but any way, no it is not just you.
Actually, I am kind of glad to see this, now I see it is not just me.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby CwF » 2019-07-10 14:10

I have noticed this too, I am a young one here though.

I do try to help. I try to spell things out in a single post if I can, and tackle things that interest me. I don't mind spoon feeding someone, especially if it appears to produce a concise post available for searching - which no one does. I avoid many post, mostly when my response is sarcastic. I'm not young, so my tongue is finely honed, it could needlessly hurt people.

I rely on gary and the medicated head to set people straight since I maybe have not earned that right.

I do hope my input is appreciated.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-07-10 14:11

One thing I find particularly annoying, is these clowns that refuse to even take the time to write correctly, as suggested in : http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10653
9. The language on this board is primarily English but we do not exclude people with little or no English. When replying to posts in other languages please include an English translation. It's a good idea to help non-English speakers find resources in their language.
A forum is a means of written communication so make sure your posts are as readable as possible. That means: Use capital letters and punctuation, and use the formatting features of the forum wisely in order to make your post attractive. Try to avoid 'l33t speak', 'chatspeak,' and 'SMS language'.
There is no need to apologize for poor English skills. We have users from all over the world and trying your best is more than adequate.

The one I am thinking of, was asked nicely a couple of times to write better, and blatantly
refused, saying " I will type the way I want to", expect this clown wrote; "i will type the way i want", in other post " u can c, i did this or that ", yea right, I can see you did not bother to type well, so I won't bother with trying to answer. When these clowns blatantly refuse to at least make a effort to improve, and respond in such a piggy way, and say " i will type the way i want",..well it would be better for everyone if they were banned, since I can't do that, I just use the ignore option, and no longer read the nonsense, but do have to check the posts for spam, ...so every time that person posts, I have to jump into the pigpen, and check it, ... just saying.
The ban would not need to be permanent, just a warning, "Practice your typing skills,and when they improve the ban will be lifted.", something like that.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby Deb-fan » 2019-07-10 15:14

It's not just you. Personally try to tend to be more selective in which posts I bother responding to. If the OP is a total mess, why bother? Don't mind spoon feeding some obviously new people just need to remind them of what's considered good forum nettiquette. Provide basic information and reminding people it's expected for them to have done some research and made some effort themselves. Some new people are simply going to have no idea what to research or where to start.

So opt for a benefit of the doubt attitude. The Debian userbase is growing, so Debian's getting some long overdo recognition and hopefully those users go on to make some meaningful contributions down the road. People who consistently show they simply aren't willing to invest any effort, that's up to each member of the community how much free tech-support we're willing to provide those types.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-07-10 16:13

The reason it is important that members try to use good typing, grammar, spelling, etc is
because many other members are using machine translators to translate the posts to their language, so when someone refuses to acknowledge a suggestion, or request to improve the writing and typing, essentially they are refusing to make any effort to make their posts readable, in most languages, therefore, why should they even be allowed to post ?
Obviously , first asking nicely, then perhaps a warning, after the warning a blatant refusal such as " i will type the way i want", OK, that is fine, type the way you want, but not here, Bye bye, adios amigo, etc.
===========
La razón por la que es importante que los miembros traten de usar una buena tipografía, gramática, ortografía, etc. es
Debido a que muchos otros miembros están utilizando traductores automáticos para traducir las publicaciones a su idioma, por lo tanto, cuando alguien se niega a aceptar una sugerencia o solicita mejorar la escritura y la escritura, esencialmente se niegan a hacer cualquier esfuerzo para que sus publicaciones sean legibles. idiomas, por lo tanto, ¿por qué se les debería permitir publicar?
Obviamente, primero preguntando amablemente, luego quizás una advertencia, después de la advertencia una negativa descarada como "voy a escribir la forma que quiero", está bien, escribe la forma que quieras, pero no aquí, adiós, adios amigo , etc.
===============================
السبب في أنه من المهم أن يحاول الأعضاء استخدام الكتابة الجيدة والنحو والإملاء وما إلى ذلك
لأن العديد من الأعضاء الآخرين يستخدمون المترجمين الآليين لترجمة المنشورات إلى لغتهم ، لذلك عندما يرفض شخص ما الاعتراف باقتراح ، أو يطلب تحسين الكتابة والكتابة ، يرفضون بشكل أساسي بذل أي جهد لجعل مشاركاتهم قابلة للقراءة ، في معظمها لذلك ، لماذا ينبغي حتى السماح لهم بالنشر؟
من الواضح ، أولاً ، اسأل جيدًا ، ثم ربما تحذيرًا ، بعد التحذير رفضًا صارخًا مثل "سأكتب بالطريقة التي أريدها" ، حسنًا ، اكتب ما تريد ، ولكن ليس هنا ، إلى اللقاء ، وداعًا ، adios amigo الخ
alsabab fi 'anah min almhmi 'an yuhawil al'aeda' aistikhdam alkitabat aljayidat walnahw wal'iimla' wama 'iilaa dhlk
li'ana aledyd min al'aeda' alakharin yastakhdimun almutarjimin alaliiyn litarjamat almanshurat 'iilaa lughutahim , ldhlk eindama yarfud shakhs ma alaietiraf biaiqtirah , 'aw yatlub tahsin alkitabat walkitabat , yarfudun bishakl 'asasiin badhl ayi jahad lajaeal musharakatihim qabilatan lilqira'at , fi mezmha ldhlk , limadha yanbaghi hataa alsamah lahum balnshr?
min alwadih , awlaan , ais'al jydana , thum rubama thdhyrana , baed altahdhir rfdana sarkhana mithl "s'uktab bialtariqat alty 'uriduha" , hsnana , aiktub ma turid , walakun lays huna , 'iilaa alliqa' , wdaeana , adios amigo alkh
=============================

La raison pour laquelle il est important que les membres essaient d’utiliser une bonne dactylographie, grammaire, orthographe, etc.
comme beaucoup d'autres membres utilisent des traducteurs automatiques pour traduire les articles dans leur langue, de sorte que, lorsqu'une personne refuse de reconnaître une suggestion ou demande d'améliorer l'écriture et la dactylographie, elle refuse essentiellement de faire tout son possible pour que leurs articles soient lisibles. Par conséquent, pourquoi devraient-ils même être autorisés à poster?
Évidemment, d'abord demander gentiment, puis peut-être un avertissement, après l'avertissement d'un refus flagrant tel que "je vais taper comme je veux", OK, c'est bien, taper comme vous voulez, mais pas ici, au revoir, adios amigo , etc.
================================
Der Grund, warum es wichtig ist, dass Mitglieder versuchen, eine gute Schreibweise, Grammatik, Rechtschreibung usw. zu verwenden, ist
Da viele andere Mitglieder maschinelle Übersetzer verwenden, um die Posts in ihre Sprache zu übersetzen, lehnen sie es im Wesentlichen ab, ihre Posts in den meisten Fällen lesbar zu machen, wenn sich jemand weigert, einen Vorschlag zu akzeptieren oder eine Verbesserung des Schreib- und Schreibverhaltens anzufordern sprachen, warum sollten sie also überhaupt posten dürfen?
Natürlich, zuerst freundlich fragen, dann vielleicht eine Warnung, nach der Warnung eine offensichtliche Ablehnung wie "Ich tippe, wie ich will", OK, das ist in Ordnung, tippe, wie du willst, aber nicht hier, Tschüss, adios amigo , usw.
============
There are so many languages, but I guess that is enough, ...
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-07-10 16:15

Soul Singin' wrote:Then someone decided that we must all be nice to the newbies

Nah, go ahead and flame the little fuckers, it's all good.
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Re: Is it just me...

Postby Deb-fan » 2019-07-10 16:54

^Lmao. :D
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