Is it just me...

[NFT5]

Started with Facebook. Hasn't changed much since.

[neuraleskimo]

Started with Facebook. Hasn't changed much since.

LOL. Too bad there isn't a like button here...err...umm. Nevermind. I mean +1.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Oh come on folks, these boards aren't supposed to be all chummy & friendly. Have you ever read the Debian mailing lists? They're a bunch of grumpy, argumentative bastards and I think we should have the same ambiance here

[neuraleskimo]

Oh come on folks, these boards aren't supposed to be all chummy & friendly. Have you ever read the Debian mailing lists? They're a bunch of grumpy, argumentative bastards and I think we should have the same ambiance here

You #*^%* Windows user! Actually, I can do worse. I have uttered grammatically correct sentences composed almost entirely of various forms of the f-word. I can do that if it will make you feel better.

Being serious for a moment... Sometimes the person you are arguing with may have serious problems in their life (e.g., mental illness). For example, I once had a student who was struggling. She eventually told me that she was homeless. After that, I connected a few dots from the news and discovered her father had been arrested for nearly beating her mother to death. Kinda hard to forget. Also, I am proud to say that my last five graduate students have been female. From that and other experiences, I can say with certainty that women are not impressed by all of testosterone dripping from many a computing forum. Finally, there are some children that visit this forum. Heck, cuckooflew is only eleven years old! We will see if he catches that.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Sometimes the person you are arguing with may have serious problems in their life

Well yes, but if they give me crap then they'll get it back double. IMO it's better to inure people to unkindness via exposure in a relatively "safe" environment.

[sunrat]

Sometimes the person you are arguing with may have serious problems in their life

Well yes, but if they give me crap then they'll get it back double. IMO it's better to inure people to unkindness via exposure in a relatively "safe" environment.

Damn straight! N00bs need to be hazed so they know how to toe the line. Otherwise you end up like certain forums which shall remain nameless becoming flooded with help vampires and grumpy old autocratic mods advising transgressors to get off their lawn.
But there is a line. There's a difference between hazing and downright inhuman bullying of which I see occasional occurrences. As their is a difference between smart questions, and incomprehensible babble which also seems to have increased lately.

[Bulkley]

As their is a difference between smart questions, and incomprehensible babble which also seems to have increased lately.

The "incomprehensible babble" has puzzled me for quite a while. When I see it I wonder if it's a bot or a troll. Some of it is from very confused posters who are often quite defensive of the mess they made.

[cuckooflew]

Finally, there are some children that visit this forum. Heck, cuckooflew is only eleven years old! We will see if he catches that.

I did, and I am ashamed of myself, what a bad example of behaviour, "lying" ,...at the time , I was joking , but yes we do get young people here, some might even be as young as that, there are a lot that really do act like they are maybe 12 years old, at best,...besides, age is really mostly a mental state, some people stop maturing at very young age, for a while it is ok, but later you have a very childish adult, and it can be rather annoying when a 35 or 40 year old adult carries on like a 12 year old spoiled brat,..... I will fix my age in my profile, don't want to be accused of lying.

[neuraleskimo]

Finally, there are some children that visit this forum. Heck, cuckooflew is only eleven years old! We will see if he catches that.

I did, and I am ashamed of myself, what a bad example of behaviour, "lying" ,...at the time , I was joking... I will fix my age in my profile, don't want to be accused of lying.

I think it’s funny. Joking and lying are different things in my opinion. I wouldn’t change a thing if I were you. Besides, your credibility is solid!

[stevepusser]

As their is a difference between smart questions, and incomprehensible babble which also seems to have increased lately.

The "incomprehensible babble" has puzzled me for quite a while. When I see it I wonder if it's a bot or a troll. Some of it is from very confused posters who are often quite defensive of the mess they made.

I usually assume it's the result of machine translation. Though there was some self-professed artistic type on the Debian subreddit this week that wanted a really easy to set up version of Debian, but would not consider a derivative because of their "feels" that they were all toys made by bored teenagers, or run by evil empires like Canonical (no middle ground, according to them) (MX Linux devs median age is probably closer to 60, I'm 62) They also kept maintaining that LMDE was based on Ubuntu...

[Head_on_a_Stick]

But there is a line

The line for me is the arrogant attitude of entitlement displayed by a certain type of n00b, usually fresh from Windows. It really winds me up.

[golinux]

But there is a line

The line for me is the arrogant attitude of entitlement displayed by a certain type of n00b, usually fresh from Windows. It really winds me up.

You have a long list of windup triggers, HoaS.

[Bulkley]

The line for me is the arrogant attitude of entitlement displayed by a certain type of n00b, usually fresh from Windows. It really winds me up.

Me too. It can be any other OS. Frequently the noob has installed Testing because he thinks it's an upgrade and doesn't want to use old stuff but has no idea what Testing is. When I see this I don't respond because it is a waste of time.

Every OS has unique advantages. Debian's are stability and easy access to a massive package repository. That doesn't work for everybody nor should it.

If there was one thing I'd like to teach every noob it is to take error messages and plug them into their favourite search engine.

[kedaha]

Frequently the noob has installed Testing because he thinks it's an upgrade and doesn't want to use old stuff but has no idea what Testing is. When I see this I don't respond because it is a waste of time.

They want to use it as their "daily driver" if they haven't already come across Kali Linux as their "distro" of choice. Now, where on earth did that expression "daily driver" come from?
So the roadmap seems to be is to "migrate" from Windows to Ubuntu or Mint and thence to Debian by means of the unofficial non-free firmware-bearing images "to make things easier on some systems requiring proprietary but redistributable firmware". After learning to edit the sources.list, they promptly "upgrade" to testing or sid. Easy peasy.

Oh come on folks, these boards aren't supposed to be all chummy & friendly. Have you ever read the Debian mailing lists? They're a bunch of grumpy, argumentative bastards and I think we should have the same ambience here

rickh's What is a "Real" Debian User? discussion comes to mind.

[sunrat]

"Daily driver" is a fairly descriptive term and much shorter than "the system I use every day and and on which I do most of my stuff". I say daily driver sometimes.
N00bs come here from *buntu or Mint and expect smooth sailing. They need to be reminded that Debian can be more work (and more RTFM) than those.
I'm reticent to help n00bs who try to use testing or unstable. Also tend to avoid topics which have posts from certain annoying people who I have on my foes list. There are only 2 of them but they both seem to have returned recently after hiatus.
I also skip over topics of which I have no idea or experience unlike several certain people including the 2 foes. It's not helpful to do searches for people as they will keep coming back for the same. Teach them to fish, don't give them fish, otherwise it encourages help-vampirism.

[sickpig]

I suppose some were born as Debian certified experts bypassing the N00b stage altogether. Thus making it ok for them to "haze" N00bs.

[cuckooflew]

Yes exactly, like my grandfather was.

[cuckooflew]

It's not helpful to do searches for people as they will keep coming back for the same.

Like everything in life, it depends on the circumstances, etc. But I disagree, not all of them just "come back for the same", yes, I do agree some do, but to others it is helpful, some times it takes a lot of searching , and not just searching, but reading the results to see which ones might be of use, some times the person with the problem may actually be very busy and not have time to spend hours doing searches, other times maybe their "free time", when they can get online is limited, in those cases they appreciate when someone does take the time. Some actually even do say than kyou as well
Others really do not have a clue as to how to do a effective search, and giving them some examples, examples of keywords, and how the error message it self is often sufficient , so not only does it help them solve the current problem , maybe, but it also helps them learn how to do better searches their selves,.. of course , yes others take advantage, and just continue not bothering, after a while it is obvious they will never do anything their selves and that is a good time to just ignore them, but that is not a excuse or reason to not help those that need and appreciate the help. ... In any event, and some people might not read this, since they see me as a horrible person, and consider me a "foe", but any way I apologize , I can not be perfect like those others, and any way, I will still continue to try to help others any way I can, even if it is just taking the time to do some searches for them,..the "thank you's" are appreciated. With that said, guess that is all for now. Except, one more thing:
Some times it does seem like we have a lot of members that seem to have nothing better to do then "bash" everyone else's efforts, and "bash" the newbies for not knowing everything, but really it is just a few... for the most part , this forum has a pretty good bunch of active members, and many are very helpful. Maybe "it is just me",that thinks it is helpful to not only tell others to do searches, but to do some for them and teach them.

[NFT5]

It's not helpful to do searches for people as they will keep coming back for the same. Teach them to fish, don't give them fish, otherwise it encourages help-vampirism.

I think that sunrat's on the money here. Doing searches for people is not teaching them how to fish. Worse, it's easily taken as being condescending and doesn't encourage any change in behaviour. I note the recent return of what is probably the most prolific help vampire I've ever seen and, after nearly 400 posts, nothing has changed, other than the topics have become slightly more technical. What's more notable, in my view anyway, is that he hasn't once given anything back to the forum by way of help to others, nor has he ever said "thanks" for the help he's been given.

[cuckooflew]

Yea, but like I said, it depends on the situation. I have noticed one, actually more then 1, not sure for sure if it is the same one your referring to or not though. So guess I am a horrible person, so be it. Some times telling them " I did this search for you " is also enough of a hint , it might be taken as condescending , that is fine with me, logic would be to start doing your own searches, if it is condescending when some one does it for you and tells you they did.
But any way, I apologize again, for not being so perfect as others, besides that I enjoy doing the searches, I learn a lot in the process. If the moderators or admins decide that it is evil to do searches for others , they can all ways delete any posts that are results of doing that.
Of course just ignoring posts that are easily answered just doing a search, but , then 98% of the posts would be getting ignored. And the clueless newbie would never know that someone found the answer just by doing a search. It might be better though to just suggest that they do a search, and leave it at that, but that is condescending as well, and almost all ways they will say they did. I have better things to do though then arguing about if it is good or bad to do searches for someone, it is pointless and it depends on the situation. It will not change my way of doing things any way. I also will give a stranger in need or asking for a meal, (we have a restaurant) Some people think that giving them a meal or a handout is bad, and it just encourages them to keep "begging", but I just don't see it that way, so the same, I help them , and let them go on down the road, I could not live with myself very well if I turned them down, and just let them go hungry,.. I suppose that is different , but not really. Of course for those that don't want to help with searches, that is fine as well,nobody is obligated to do that.