Debian User Forums

no of course not.
internet results to solutions r useless most of the times. I have almost always been provided with the right answers here in this forum as compared to getting them from random internet (interweb) searches.
and hey, man pages without examples r the most cryptic form of instructions i have ever come across.
dont answer if the solution is readily available. or if the OP hasn't provided sufficient evidence of their efforts in finding the correct solution.
whats d point in undermining the OP by belittling them for lack of their knowledge?

That beginner on the MX forums never would give us the result of "lspci -k" so we could try and see which Intel wi-fi they had, or even one of the many other ways I suggested could give us the chipset, but it must have been one of the new ninth-generation ones that are only supported in the 5.1 and 5.2 kernel.

Since it didn't work out of the box with our 4.19 backported Buster kernel, and they never did provide information so we could check with modinfo to see if its PCI was supported on a 5.1 kernel after being asked several times, we didn't even get the chance to tell them how to install and use a 5.1 kernel on MX with a couple mouse clicks.

Since MX didn't support their spanking new bleeding-edge hardware out of the box, and an Arch-based distro with the 5.2 kernel did, they said they were going to go write a scathing review of MX at Distrowatch... The thread was locked before I could offer triple their money back.

stevepusser wrote:That beginner on the MX forums

Yeah, I saw that thread. In the UK we would call such a person a "bellend"

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: In the UK we would call such a person a "bellend"

A lot of words must have fallen overboard on the journey from England to Australia. We'd just call such a person a dickhead.

sickpig wrote:internet results to solutions r useless most of the times. I have almost always been provided with the right answers here in this forum as compared to getting them from random internet (interweb) searches.

This really goes to the point made in another thread just today that these forums should not be used as a personal help desk. No doubt you have been given the right answers but did you need to ask the question in the first place? I've had many questions in my Linux journey but probably 98% of those have been able to be answered with a Google search and then making some sort of evaluation as to whether the suggested course of action is a) the correct one or b) not. Sometimes I've called the answer to that question wrong but even I am smart enough to have backups if if fails miserably and, if not, then I've had to reinstall and start again. My call in either case but it's part of the learning experience and the few questions that I have asked here have, by and large, been ones that have had no answer or a solution has had to be developed by people like stevepusser. But we can't rely on people as generous as he is because sooner or later he'll get sick of helping those who won't help themselves and that will hurt not just the forum but those members who have genuine problems as well.

@NFT5 couldn't agree more that before posting a basic search has to be done and made clear in your post that you have searched.

I meant that the quality of answers posted here by most of the veterans barring a few, is way too high as compared to random internet results. And definitely more reliable.

NFT5 wrote:A lot of words must have fallen overboard on the journey from England to Australia.

I think it's a recent addition, we Brits are pretty inventive when it comes to insults. Smeghead would also apply, the pronunciation is very specific though: https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=T-reEOxzJCE

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

NFT5 wrote:A lot of words must have fallen overboard on the journey from England to Australia.

I think it's a recent addition, we Brits are pretty inventive when it comes to insults. Smeghead would also apply, the pronunciation is very specific though: https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=T-reEOxzJCE

Indeed Red Dwarf is at the pinnacle of British culture (sharing a spot with The IT Crowd) but the term "smeghead" hasn't transitioned into general usage in Australia. Unfortunately.

Back on the subject of clueless new users, there has also been a marked increase of newer members giving really bad, irrelevant, or useless advice.

Is it just me...

No, it's not just you. I feel it too but I'm not sure what it is. We seem to be attracting a lot of new posters who have rather strange expectations, who get hostile when we don't meet those expectations. I'm becoming a lurker rather than a participant.

It's still an undeniable fact that Debian is harder for beginners than some other distros. I used Mandrake, Suse, PCLos for 5 years before attempting to use Debian mainly because of its reputation for being more difficult. Ubuntu didn't exist then, I tried it when it appeared and was never a fan. It was Kanotix that finally brought me screaming to the Debian world and I have stayed, currently using siduction as main distro, AVLinux for audio production, and Debian Buster and MX just to keep up with other developments.
Maybe we should get back to the days of recommending other distros for beginners such as Mint and MX. I tend to feel sorry for the MX devs though as I follow their forums and they have the same clueless newbies and help vampires there even though MX mainly works OOTB.

sunrat wrote:Maybe we should get back to the days of recommending other distros for beginners such as Mint and MX. I tend to feel sorry for the MX devs though as I follow their forums and they have the same clueless newbies and help vampires there even though MX mainly works OOTB.

While derivative OS forums will get some "clueless newbies and help vampires" they probably don't get users wanting help on other platforms. The MX forum won't get many users wanting help with Kali or *buntu. I have no guilt about suggesting that newbies spend some time on an easier OS.

sunrat wrote:Maybe we should get back to the days of recommending other distros for beginners such as Mint and MX.

+1

But not Mint.

@Garry. Forum burnout, happens to everyone who devotes massive time/effort with gnu/nix and a possibly unhealthy amount of time participating in the forums. Hopefully left his user account open so he always has the option of visiting. With windows 10 apparently being a mess (m$ this and that going EOL) think there's bound to be a sizable chunk of people who start looking at alternatives. Debian is sure to get some share of them.

No doubt many of them are not going to be tech-wizards, many not even truly interested in the related subjects. Just want their pc's to work etc. Short of Debian HQ deciding to go Gentoo(inherently complex) or Arch (imo intentionally over complicated to get setup) many people just won't invest the effort. Always believed it to be a safety measure put in place to weed out the lazy or tech-retarded, other undesirable types.

Though also think doing such goes against the ideals behind the Debian project, so isn't going to happen. Enough trouble from them having stuck to the no non-free out-of-box. Though don't blame them a bit, been a core principal. No shortage of "Debian based" which happily include everything proprietary end-users could need. Personally would rather see Debian get all the credit and recognition. So not sure about constantly advising newer users to go elsewhere.

Guess it doesn't help that it's that time again. New Debian stable released, along with a flood of users who did some half baked upgrade attempt, doing who knows what or how in the process and flood the forum with all manner of help requests.

I've been on these forums for 13 years and never blocked anyone. Today I added two users to my foes list and a couple more are also on the radar. Sad times.

^ Feel your pain, nobody on foes list either. Have hardly ever done such in any forum but some of the community members here are so bad that yep. My plonk trigger fingers getting really itchy too. If ya read a person's posts and feel a heavy downward pressure on your IQ and/or brain starts to throb and squirm around probably best to put them on the Plonk list.

Though hey @Sunrat that's a mature and sensible way to dealing with a situation too. Less aggravating than letting somebody irritate you and more productive than flaming all hades out of them(probably, maybe.)

The 'everything is easy' mentality is a generational trend that can only intensify. Technology and advances in medicine will continue to condition people everything is as easy as pushing a button or taking a pill. This goes diametrically opposite to having to strive and sweat to get anything. So, most people will find it extremely boring to have to read a manual for a couple of commands. Their conditioning tells them they should find those commands in no time and those commands should work.

This is how I see it from a Skinnerian Conditioning perspective.

Is it just you? No. It's anyone who's been here long enough to see the same old questions being asked with the same lack of research.
I'm not sure if it's getting worse, but it certainly is getting repetitive with each new release.

I'm too kind to block someone (unless they make a personal remark), and am the sort to just give them a fish. If it solves their problem, what the hell. I hate seeing someone frustrated who might regress to Windows. They're here because they've seen the light and they need to be encouraged for fear they join the dark side.

Sometimes it is harder to explain how to do something the easy way than to just let them continue to do it the hard way.

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=144167

Gotta vent, RANT follows.

Having started out with Linux Mint 10, as a first actual install. Though only VERY briefly used the thing before moving on, kept supporting the distro and offering up help as poss in the community but got to say, YE GAWDS, so many nixers are friggin clueless. Esp in such userbases as Ubuntu and LM. Which between them no doubt make up the vast majority of people who use gnu/Linux on their pc's !!! Even folks who've been using it for 10yrs, 1,000's of posts bunch of meaningless status blocks and beans are clearly complete tek-tards. It's infuriating and frustrating to no end. Of course these folks don't remain around their much beloved pointy-clicky gui'ey stuffed (BLOATED TO HADES) distro's. They get other idea's and spread out and afflict so many other gnu/nix communities with their tardation.

It's like the avg window$ user. Someone who's been using it for 15yrs, doesn't mean they have a clue. Pop open an admin console, start running utils etc on the thing and they'd have less than no idea what's happening. Try to touch something technical and their eyes cross and glaze over ! Which I have to say is what I consider a vast majority of people who use gnu/Linux = window$ users with delusions of grandeur ! Here, there ... they're EVERYWHERE !!!

Crap again find myself contemplating Gentoo or Slackware. One of the founding gnu/Nix distributions which are inherently harder and complex. Thus acting as a very effective barrier against stupid/lazy users. Who very literally can't and won't be able to cut it setting up or admin'ing such OS's !!!! Ah ... don't want to let go of the pure and unadulterated kickbuttness of Debian though ! Damned if do, damned if don't. Guess I'm just going to have to install a brain filter to block these tarded feckers out !

End pointless rant: Thanks for starting this thread. Good place to let off steam.

Pointless update: Went ahead and had em closey my final acct over LM forum way. Lol ... a newerish Mod must've done it, as they wiped out all that users posts along with. Ah and oh well ... like I give a whit, shrugs.

Cannot ... will not participate in a community where a good chunk of the senior folks and peeps who've been using gnu/Nix for 5, 7 ... 10yrs congregate and never bothered learning gnu/Linux 101 and junk that's so basic nobody should even need to learn or be told about. Google your damn error msg YOU FRIGGIN MORON'S !!!

My loyalty lay with Debian gnu/Linux. I WUV you Debian ! Ok ... just random add to stupid vent/rant fellows.