init diversity in Debian

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init diversity in Debian

Postby golinux » 2019-09-19 17:49

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Re: init diversity in Debian

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-09-20 16:52

Sounds like our beloved Leader is keen for that not to happen:
Sam Hartman wrote:I'm concerned that removing Elogind commits us to Systemd-based solutions with a very high cost to try new things or change direction. For me that's a step we should be very careful before taking.

And he proposes a GR vote to formally decide on support for elogind.

The bit that caught my eye was this:
Sam Hartman wrote:There are 1033 non-overridden instances of lintian detecting a service unit without an init.d script [7].

Does Devuan supply the missing init scripts for all of those packages?
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Re: init diversity in Debian

Postby golinux » 2019-09-20 18:08

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Sounds like our beloved Leader is keen for that not to happen:
Sam Hartman wrote:I'm concerned that removing Elogind commits us to Systemd-based solutions with a very high cost to try new things or change direction. For me that's a step we should be very careful before taking.
And he proposes a GR vote to formally decide on support for elogind.
Like that worked so well last time. Well, it did for ass-covering and non-action. :lol: For those who are unaware of how the last GR went down, I present dasein's drill-down analysis:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:The bit that caught my eye was this:
Sam Hartman wrote:There are 1033 non-overridden instances of lintian detecting a service unit without an init.d script [7].
Does Devuan supply the missing init scripts for all of those packages?
No we don't. And I can't remember any discussion about a problem from the lack thereof. Either those packages aren't being used or those using them know how to create the missing bit. Here are the packages that we touch . . . a little less than 200:
https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages?page=1
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Re: init diversity in Debian

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-09-20 18:38

golinux wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Does Devuan supply the missing init scripts for all of those packages?
No we don't.

Might be worth considering then, quite a few important services are on the list.
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Re: init diversity in Debian

Postby golinux » 2019-09-20 18:55

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
golinux wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Does Devuan supply the missing init scripts for all of those packages?
No we don't.

Might be worth considering then, quite a few important services are on the list.
If someone squawks, we'll have a look. We really don't need to do extra work if no one is experiencing an issue. Unless, you are offering to take on that project. And btw, if the GR decision been other than ass-covering, that issue wouldn't exist.
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Re: init diversity in Debian

Postby sjukfan » 2019-09-20 22:24

Someone¹ should make a systemd unit file runtime, so sysV, openRC, and all those, could run unit files. Is the systemd unit file the best of them? Probably not, but there would be a whole lot less work everyone. (Except that someone ^^)

¹ With more programming experience than I.
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Re: init diversity in Debian

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-09-21 09:16

sjukfan wrote:Is the systemd unit file the best of them?

The unit files are declarative in nature (inspired by INI files) so they just list configuration options and leave the heavy lifting to the (C-based) backend. For the alternative init systems shell scripts are used instead and these require more skill to create than a unit file and are consequently more likely to be buggy. So yes, systemd unit files are the best. IMO.
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Re: init diversity in Debian

Postby vmclark » 2019-09-21 15:00

Sometimes its hard to separate wheat from chaff. The articles are endless regarding systemd and mostly SysV. It appears they just want to go backwards without regard to current modern systems. Elogind is something I haven't heard of until now. The voices are loud regarding the init systems, but this read from Gentoo-Elogind explains some facts I wasn't aware of:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Elogind
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