(just a thought) windows to debian installer

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!

(just a thought) windows to debian installer

Postby daft » 2005-11-04 12:12

The main stream PC user is scared for there pc.
Even in the time of bootable cd's like knoppix scared for the idea there PC explodes or all data is removed. The 1st time of installing Linux is a barrier.
We can make it a lot easier for them to enter the world of gnu/Linux by creating a nice windows GUI application that hold there hand explaining them stuff and saves config files on a temporally partition. that will be used for the installer to make the real installing go automatically.

This system can detect settings and configs like network interface settings browser bookmarks email settings can detect system users all things that automate the installing of Linux.

Because this pre installer runs on windows Inet works and can use the graphical abilities. example for the question what gui the user would like to use. there can be a short into of the GUIs screenschots and links to there website.
And also a good thing you can save it at any point you like. really don't know what you want or give it a break, save it and you can continue a other time.
Because the installation is totally automated the frame buffer can be used to show them a nice presentation of what they can do with there system. with there windows view in mind. like they are used to see during a windows installation.

I even think it can be installed with out the use of a cd. so that the whole process of burning ISO's can be forgotten. (but im not an expert in this)

also some irc client can be integrated to send them to some freenode channel where guys like us idle around and can help them or give them advice.

when Debian is installed it looks like they wanted it. the usernames are there. email client is set and ready to use. all bookmarks are in the browser hell we can even give them there windows desktop background.

If we want to have the main stream windows user to dive in and explore the world of gnu/linux we need to do that the windows way.
daft
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 2005-11-04 11:34
Location: Amsterdam

Postby domecq » 2005-12-29 00:19

www.mslinux.org

Kidding!

Talking about ways, I'm very curious to know your opinion on what is the best way to find a solution to a problem: 1- to have the right solution for the wrong problem or 2- the wrong solution for the right problem?

Cheers,

Domecq
User avatar
domecq
Moderator Team Member
 
Posts: 560
Joined: 2005-10-18 00:53
Location: Montréal, Canada

Postby dmartinsca » 2006-01-10 21:03

I'm not trying to shoot your idea down, just a thought of my own..

wouldn't users be lost when they suddenly were put into a linux environment but had no idea how it had been setup? My main reason for thinking this is the CLI. How many windows users have ever used the command line? Personally i've run across a few people on the linuxquestions.org forums who have installed a nice flashy hold-your-hand distro and come asking for help when something doesn't work, which is fine. However, when told to open terminal and type 'su' then the root password as the first step they reply "How do i open a terminal, what is my root password, where do i type 'su', etc etc?" Basically, some people don't realize the keyboard can be used for more than MS Word.

Just my 2 cents, although i'm almost positive a project like this will be developed. Maybe one is already in the works.. wouldn't surprise me.
dmartinsca
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 2006-01-08 23:15
Location: Ontario, Canada

Postby J Arcane » 2006-01-11 16:07

Well there's this: http://www.winlinux.net/

There's also DragonLinux, and the old Mandrake-based Linux4Win.

However WinLinux doesn't appear to be totally GNU/free, and DL and L4W use LOADLIN.EXE, which doesn't work on ME and above, because it requires true DOS mode to boot.

Personally though, I think the best, safest way to try Linux, is just nabbing a copy of Knoppix. It gives users the opportunity to try it, but it autoconfigures itself easily, and requires no reformatting or any such thing like that.
User avatar
J Arcane
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 2005-12-10 20:06

Postby muskrat » 2006-03-25 00:06

If we want to have the main stream windows user to dive in and explore the world of gnu/linux we need to do that the windows way.


Frist of all, I'm not sure I want the whole of mainstream using linux, but if they must then why should we have to build an OS that is inferior for that to happen? (Interpurted "Dumbed Down).

I saw this happen in the trucking industry. When I began, not just anybody could or would drive trucks. If you did, there was certain things you must know. Now that the industry changed to allow anybody that can complete 18 days of school, to learn what it took us years to learn. The trucks have changed. Any dumbo can drive these dumbed down trucks. We call them idiot proof trucks. But now if there is a problem, even us old timers have problem diagnosing problems, because the truck has been dumbed down, with fewer controls and gauges to manage and monitor whats going on.

Is that what you really want? Another OS that controls your PC with no options for you other than what they give you.
Steve - Muskrat
Registered Linux user #305785.
Registered desktop PC #261727 Sidux
Registered laptop PC #310468 Debian Lenny
User avatar
muskrat
 
Posts: 278
Joined: 2005-02-13 01:07
Location: Gulf-Coast TX-MX

Postby Lavene » 2006-03-25 07:02

I have one question regarding 'converting' the average MS user: Why?

    For most Windows users the system works flawlessly. They can surf the web, use e-mail and MSN out of the box.
    Most MS users have either bought, borrowd or pirated MS Office, Photoshop and other bits and pieces they want to use.
    BSOD is pretty much a thing of the past.
    Most users get a security package either when they buy the PC or with their internet connection.
    They can effordlessly connect pretty much every available piece of hardware to their box and will magically work.
    They know how to use Windows already.
What hey get, as seen from the average MS users point of view is:

    An OS they have to install them selves.
    A system they know absolutly nothing about.
    A buch of software the know nothing about.
    A lot af hardware they can't get to work.
    A bunch of games they can no longer use.

So they need to learn among other things:

    About filesystems and partitioning.
    How to install software
    How to make hardware work (Which can be a pain even for the most seasoned GNU/ Linux user)

The bottom line is that the average desktop user have absolutly nothing to gain but problems and frustration. Unless they have someone to hold their hand for quite a while they'll be back on Windows in no time telling everyone that cares to listen what a piece of crap Linux is.

I've converted a few people and I've had it. I will never ever recomend anyone installing GNU/ Linux ever again unless they comes to me an ask and convince me that they really want to learn. I'm tired of giving technical support to people that don't care to learn...

GNU/Linux need to evolve naturally, the users will come when they are ready for Linux and Linux is ready for them. Starting to push in either direction will lead to no good at all.

Tina :)
Lavene
Site admin
 
Posts: 5096
Joined: 2006-01-04 04:26
Location: Oslo, Norway

Postby CuCullin » 2006-03-25 15:09

Lavene wrote:I have one question regarding 'converting' the average MS user: Why?

    For most Windows users the system works flawlessly. They can surf the web, use e-mail and MSN out of the box.
    Most MS users have either bought, borrowd or pirated MS Office, Photoshop and other bits and pieces they want to use.
    BSOD is pretty much a thing of the past.
    Most users get a security package either when they buy the PC or with their internet connection.
    They can effordlessly connect pretty much every available piece of hardware to their box and will magically work.
    They know how to use Windows already.


I agree.... but I disagree also. For many, Windows is a headache. They go out and buy something at CompUSA, and it doesn't work - theres always some driver they need to find, and the one on the CD doesn't work right. Being on the web out of the box means being subjected to spyware, malware, and the possibility of becoming a zombie. It then slows to a crawl within a few weeks. Whether or not they pirated it already is inconsequential.... while my position on copyright and intellectual property would take far too long to state here, everyone should be offended by the theft of copyrighted works. GIMP and OO.o work on various platforms, and should be offered as the alternative to stealing. They also don't have *any* clue how to use Windows out of the box, what they know is intuitive... point, click, it opens. Go to the menu (after being told to click "start", that is), find the program you want, and click on it. It now opens.

No different than any other OS really.

Lavene wrote:What hey get, as seen from the average MS users point of view is:

    An OS they have to install them selves.
    A system they know absolutly nothing about.
    A buch of software the know nothing about.
    A lot af hardware they can't get to work.
    A bunch of games they can no longer use.


How many typical user types do you know that *actually* install Windows? They don't. They get the kid down the street. They already are clueless about software, and the kid down the street is the same one who gets their hardware working on Windows. the average user is also *not* a gamer. To add to that, many gamers are now moving to Linux full time, and supporting native game developers like Id buy purchasing all of their Linux-based software.

So I agree the issues exist, and I agree that Linux does need to, and will evolve, into a much more usable system (primarily through hardware support now being gained by manufacturers sticking to standards and releasing specs). However, there isn't a single "typical" user out there who can't do quite well in Linux. I've set up many people, picking out their hardware when they get a PC, and set up an inexpensive, usable, and friendly system for them.
CuCullin
 
Posts: 89
Joined: 2006-03-17 00:07
Location: New Jersey

Postby muskrat » 2006-03-25 15:09

this is the myth;

For most Windows users the system works flawlessly. They can surf the web, use e-mail and MSN out of the box.
Most MS users have either bought, borrowd or pirated MS Office, Photoshop and other bits and pieces they want to use.
BSOD is pretty much a thing of the past.
Most users get a security package either when they buy the PC or with their internet connection.
They can effordlessly connect pretty much every available piece of hardware to their box and will magically work.
They know how to use Windows already.


MOST is the myth, yea some if not a good percentage, but not most. My experiance is that most PC users can only use the PC because it comes preconfigured. They never add hardware, never add software, They just use whats there and know of nothing else.
Steve - Muskrat
Registered Linux user #305785.
Registered desktop PC #261727 Sidux
Registered laptop PC #310468 Debian Lenny
User avatar
muskrat
 
Posts: 278
Joined: 2005-02-13 01:07
Location: Gulf-Coast TX-MX

Postby Lavene » 2006-03-26 04:10

As an apropos I stumbled across this article:
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/23/1716209

I think this is an excellent example of someone expecting GNU/ Linux to be exactly like windows.

First, I wish writers would explain acronyms fully in the early part of a post or review, so people unfamiliar with Linux can get a clue. It took me a number of weeks to find what DAO stood for (disk-at-once). Also, it took me quite a while to determine that CHMOD wasn't an acronym, but a command. AAAArrrrgh.

Weeks??? If this guy had realized that he was dealing with a different OS he would have started wite one of the (several hundreds) good tutorials available on the net or bought a book. But alas... he expected to mysteriously know everything.

And this is a gem:
I found (after a great deal of frustration) that even Kanotix rewrites a number of files that I must change each time I restart the system.
Eh... say what??

He even complain about Kanotix website being mainly in German. I mean, did he download the distro without even visit their website first? That kinda shows what kind of research he did.

This is a typical "I'm mad at MS... I'll try Linux" instance which inevitably will end up with: "Wtf??? This isn't no where near Windows. What a piece of crap".

I rest my case...

Tina :)
Lavene
Site admin
 
Posts: 5096
Joined: 2006-01-04 04:26
Location: Oslo, Norway

Postby muskrat » 2006-03-26 16:59

While XP can be faulted for many things, hardware recognition and installation are not among them --


I can fault XP for hardware recognition, with a capital R!

That was one of the last straws for my. I'll never buy another new version of windozes due to the fact of windoze not building in backward compatablity. When I purchased my frist XP machine, it wouldn't even recognize the printer that came packaged with it.

Not to mention, all the older hardware I have that was not able to use with it. I went back to ME for my cyber cafe, because of that.

It allways amazes me how Linux newbies want to set the rules, and then they ask Linux to do more than windoze ever did.

I found (after a great deal of frustration) that even Kanotix rewrites a number of files that I must change each time I restart the system. One of the reasons that many of us left Windows was the desire to customize, but without knowing the locations of files and executables, we will be lost.


Why is he editing system wide settings enstead of user setting. You can't even do that in windozes, so why once again does linux have to do that?

And one more side note, how long did it take siad person to learn to tweak windoze? Can't he give linux just as much time? I promises you, if he did, he'd be an ace user and have no complants!
Steve - Muskrat
Registered Linux user #305785.
Registered desktop PC #261727 Sidux
Registered laptop PC #310468 Debian Lenny
User avatar
muskrat
 
Posts: 278
Joined: 2005-02-13 01:07
Location: Gulf-Coast TX-MX


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

fashionable