Should there be a mentor system

[Lavene]

Nothing is hard to teach a willing student

[Telemachus]

Nothing is hard to teach a willing student

As a full-time teacher (14 years and counting, six college and eight high school), I have to say this just isn't true. It's right up there with the, "There are no stupid questions" myth. First, some concepts are intrinsically difficult. Second, some people are actually not that bright. So, for a variety of reasons, many things are hard to teach - even if the student is very willing.

[rickh]

Nothing is hard to teach a willing student :)

As a full-time teacher ...

While Telemachus seldom says anything disagreeable, this observation may be a truism. How do we submit a saying for the "fortunes" program?

The idea that willing students are easy to teach ranks near the "no stupid questions" mythology.
Some subjects are intrinsically difficult. Some students, however willing, are just not very bright. --Telemachus --

[dannybuntu]

Anyway, a mentor program would be a fun experiment. I'm just not sure there would be enough noobs actually wanting to learn to keep such a thing alive.

1 noob willing here!

107 days of using debian and counting! Since January 1 to be precise. You may somehow think that it is kinda sad to know that somebody is installing a debian on new years eve - but hey where I live, you better stay indoors on new years eve lest you want to get a stray bullet...

For some reason I have not determined yet debian is faster than ubuntu. boots faster and more responsive. That is the reason why I want to use it.

It helps to keep a log of what I did. Which I try to do on my blog - mixing it with a few stuff here and there at:

http://dannybuntu.blogspot.com

Anyway, I am intent on helping myself as well as others by posting about my experiences no matter how mundane or insignificant and compiling a list of howtos, which worked for me.

>>>>

Ive been watching some Chinese KungFu movies and I am intrigued by the way they teach their kung fu to their students. I feel that it is the same way here now. Sometimes I get knocked on the head and embarassed by the masters but nevertheless push on to whatever I can become here in the linux world.

Ive been told several times to go back to windows but as i say in my blog. They cannot keep me from loving something or someone that I love - despite my flaws.

[Lavene]

As a full-time teacher (14 years and counting, six college and eight high school), I have to say this just isn't true. It's right up there with the, "There are no stupid questions" myth. First, some concepts are intrinsically difficult. Second, some people are actually not that bright. So, for a variety of reasons, many things are hard to teach - even if the student is very willing.

Then they're just not willing enough and it's time to crack out the bull whip...
"The beating will continue until morale improves!"

You know, if every saying had to hold water we would not have any at all. I mean; There *are* free lunches, there *are* stupid questions and I'm pretty sure, given the right conditions, a rolling stone will gather moss (Yes, I know about the Mythbuster's experiment). A saying is not a myth, it's a figure of speech.

I'm also quite sure there exist very eager students with absolutely no skill or talent what so ever. Kinda like I am with chess. All my life I have wanted to become a decent chess player, I have read chess books, been in chess clubs, taken courses... you name it, but I just never became good at it. Or... maybe all the teachers just sucked

[dannybuntu]

I'm also quite sure there exist very eager students with absolutely no skill or talent what so ever.

That completely describes me.

It seems like everyone is here now. Like irc.

[MeanDean]

Nothing is hard to teach a willing student

I agree. Everyone is capable, if only they are willing....

I home-schooled my son for a while and it took a long time to break down the 'shovel it in' mentality and establish a 'consider it, work with it, do it' mentality but once that was done.....well....he went back to school and is usually on the honor roll each grading period. Probably one of the most difficult subjects was math. Once I finally got it across (with a lot of screaming and yelling in addition to hands-on examples) that math was nothing but the numbers 0-9 and manipulating those it finally started to click and he started to realize how a quarter(coin) is 1/4 or a quarter or 25% or .25 or.....well he finally gets it and has no problem with math.

IOW - all someone needs to do (for themselves or via a instructor) is consider the content, play with the content, look/read examples related to the content and just do it....

at least that is my bs-story for this thread

[Vorian Grey]

I think, all those who opt to use Debian, must at least possess a minimum of intelligence: there are other easy operating systems out there for those who do not like to be challenged.

And people question why I call this forum one for advanced users.

That's how many of you see Debian because frankly that's the way you want things to be. It could be different. Debian could easily be for anyone. Ubuntu is basically Debian rehashed and they do the noob thing very well, so I question why straight Debian couldn't do the same thing.

My opinion is why should we allow other distros to teach bad Linux concepts (at least bad in Debian thought) when we could bring them to Debian and teach them the proper way. I dare say a lot of Linux newbies using other distros mix non-free and free and they never even know the difference between them, because no one has explained it to them. It just works for them and that's all they care about. There is a difference and they should be taught that difference. Who better than Debian to teach them?

[drokmed]

Ubuntu is basically Debian rehashed and they do the noob thing very well, so I question why straight Debian couldn't do the same thing.

I for one am grateful that Ubuntu caters to the noobs, tries to teach them some linux, and points them in the Debian direction. After a year or so, some of the more adept Ubuntu users "wake up" and see the light! They notice they are living in the land of lemmings. They look down, and see they are standing in three feet of mud, trying to make straw. They realize there is a better way, and follow Moses across the parted ocean to the land of Debian, and behold the burning.... umm, well, they find how charming we are here, and join us Sorry, Charlton Heston just died, so I had to watch the '10 Commandments' again...

[bookie]

Hi all, while I don't want to rub salt into an open wound - I would like to add some comments regarding what Telemachus said

As a full-time teacher (14 years and counting, six college and eight high school), I have to say this just isn't true. It's right up there with the, "There are no stupid questions" myth. First, some concepts are intrinsically difficult. Second, some people are actually not that bright. So, for a variety of reasons, many things are hard to teach - even if the student is very willing.

I had learning problems when I was in school - Oh so long ago. I had several teachers that were of the same opinion "This student isn't capable of much" Not saying those were the exact words, but it was kinda demoralizing to be told that. Then even moved me to the idiots class!! The times I stood in the back of the class with the dunces hat on!!

The long and short of this is I didn't get any good grades on leaving school. This didn't pose a problem, but I obviously couldn't get the jobs I wanted!! I swore to never set foot in a school again.

I worked in the building game for nearly twenty years - building houses from the ground up, installing the electrical systems, the plumbing etc. Clearly I had potential that the teachers couldn't see - or weren't qualified to see!!

I came to Sweden 12 and a bit years ago and had to go back to school to learn Swedish! I learned the language and could speak it fully in six months at 37 years old! I then went to college to improve my non-existent school grades. This took 18 months and after that I started the teacher training program here at the university in Sundsvall. I was at university for two years learning absolutely nothing that could be useful for the students I would be eventually teaching. The subjects stood outside the teacher training program and were designed for researchers? The teachers don't even need pedagogic which is rather strange.

I questioned the subject matter several times because of my concerns about not learning what I needed to teach the students. Their reply was often " isn't it fun to know these things" "Är det inte kul att kunna detta". The upshot after two years and many arguments - I quit because of the poor education which is something I had to endure as a kid.

I am not saying that Telemachus is a bad teacher!! I am saying that most of us have it in us to learn - it just takes the right kind of teacher to bring it out of us. The teachers of my generation didn't have the time or the knowledge to deal with my needs!!

My situation as a kid still exists today?!! After others have complained the teacher training program is now being closely scrutinized - but too late for me!

Motivation is a big key to learning. If you want to learn, you will learn!!

I wont go into genetics and other factors that can cause learning problems because that would bore the pants of the members.

My puny little advice is don't give up try and try again!!

bookie

[dannybuntu]

My puny little advice is don't give up try and try again!!

Yeah even if they tell you to go back to Windows.........or Ubuntu....

[Gomer_X]

This has been my experience. I started using Linux (Fedora) as my main OS 4 years ago. I subscribed to the mailing lists and read them every day (200 messages a day).

That was my mentoring system. I was able to find answers to all my questions just by reading. Eventually I was able to answer simple questions for other people from time to time. The more I read, the more I was able to help.

These days, people are more likely to use Forums than mailing lists. People want to drop into a forum and get a quick answer without reading a FAQ or getting involved.

The danger comes when people get tired of answering the same old questions and start saying RTFM or "read the FAQ, n00b". I think anyone who can answer newbie questions should, so the same people don't have to answer the same questions over and over and get burnt out.

I don't have much to offer the Debian crowd now beause I'm new, but sooner or later I will. We need enough people willing to answer the same old question (and gently guide people to more information) so no one has to feel like they can't get an answer. This also keeps the old timers from getting grumpy and overworked. Eventually newbies learn enough that some of them are willing to help others.

[oswaldkelso]

Ubuntu is basically Debian rehashed and they do the noob thing very well, so I question why straight Debian couldn't do the same thing.

I for one am grateful that Ubuntu caters to the noobs, tries to teach them some linux, and points them in the Debian direction. After a year or so, some of the more adept Ubuntu users "wake up" and see the light! They notice they are living in the land of lemmings. They look down, and see they are standing in three feet of mud, trying to make straw. They realize there is a better way, and follow Moses across the parted ocean to the land of Debian, and behold the burning.... umm, well, they find how charming we are here, and join us Sorry, Charlton Heston just died, so I had to watch the '10 Commandments' again...

You crack me up tea up nose and on screen moment you should be banned!!!