DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby edbarx » 2010-03-03 20:17

I tried to both Application Launchers with the same results: the classic menu is still misbehaving. Moreover, I noticed that the launchers sometimes do not draw themselves properly.

It is clear that KDE4 is works in progress. Definitely, the erratic way it is behaving is not a good sign.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby Korrode » 2010-03-03 20:28

sir fer wrote:Openbox or fluxbox. Everything else is bloat. :mrgreen:

But seriously I have sid + fluxbox on this here 750MHz P3 and apart from a tiny bit of lag, It doesn't feel like pre-Y2K hardware, at all. And FWIW grub2 seems broken in Squeeze, when oh when will it be fixed? Seems a bit weird that sid is more usable than testing, actually, it just seems plain wrong.

Edit: XFCE4 is a good recommendation as well. There was a write up somewhere lately that said something to the effect that XFCE4 was the only DE that isn't going backwards or the wrong way. I have it on my last remaining (but not updated) Squeeze install and IMO, it's the best DE out there.

+1 to everything said here :)

Personally I run Openbox or Fluxbox + xfce4-panel (and gotta install xfdesktop4 package to get the XFCE menu on the panel).
(I still kinda swap between flux and open a bit, have yet to settle... I generally like Openbox more, but Flux has better multiple-display support)
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby Raffles10 » 2010-03-03 22:43

edbarx wrote:I tried to both Application Launchers with the same results: the classic menu is still misbehaving. Moreover, I noticed that the launchers sometimes do not draw themselves properly.

It is clear that KDE4 is works in progress. Definitely, the erratic way it is behaving is not a good sign.


I have to say that I disagree with you here. Since I installed KDE 4.3.4 it's been perfect, responsive & reliable with no erratic behaviour at all. We do tend to assume that our own experiences are typical for all users, this usually isn't the case. One persons perfection can be another's disappointment, this goes for all DE's, WM's and distributions. I can't help but think your issues are setup or hardware related. On the question of other DE's, as someone who has used Xfce extensively in the past, I would definitely recommend it.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby Bulkley » 2010-03-03 22:58

For me, the purpose of a DE or WM is to facilitate the things I do with my computer. I am not interested in eye candy. Thus, I don't have wallpaper or icons or other useless doodads. If it has no use, it isn't there. Consequently, while I have tried many DEs and WMs, I keep coming back to Openbox.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby emariz » 2010-03-03 23:20

smallchange wrote:Who says that Debian Developers choose Gnome as the default Desktop? Here is a statement from a Debian spokesperson.

Gnome is Debian's default desktop environment, otherwise the CD1 would be called "Gnome Install CD". Your source supports this view. In the sentence "[t]he default installation – or to be more precise: The default GNOME installation (there are installation media which install an KDE, Xfce or LXDE desktop by default, too) – hasn't changed", the author had to distinguish between "default installation" and "default Gnome installation" precisely because they are synonyms in every other context.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby smallchange » 2010-03-04 00:56

emariz wrote:
smallchange wrote:Who says that Debian Developers choose Gnome as the default Desktop? Here is a statement from a Debian spokesperson.

Gnome is Debian's default desktop environment, otherwise the CD1 would be called "Gnome Install CD". Your source supports this view. In the sentence "[t]he default installation – or to be more precise: The default GNOME installation (there are installation media which install an KDE, Xfce or LXDE desktop by default, too) – hasn't changed", the author had to distinguish between "default installation" and "default Gnome installation" precisely because they are synonyms in every other context.


I disagree. He had to correct himself because he is in the habit of thinking of Gnome as the default even though it is not true. There was actually much discussion of this a few years ago, involving the Popularity Contest and the meaning of default anything. I wish I could find it but it is certainly not true that Gnome is Debian's default desktop because Debian in whole or even majority decided it is the best.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby sir fer » 2010-03-04 01:48

Thanks Korrode, pretty much settled on Openbox now, altho still have fluxbox on the older hardware. Other DEs provide a bucketload of stuff I'll never use. I'd rather build from the ground up rather than strip something down.

IMO GNOME is the lesser of 2 evils. I can only imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the KDE devs when the Debian default was changed to GNOME (using Debian since sarge), altho it was for good reason IMO....KDE4 is rubbish...I used to love KDE, but what the devs have done to it is just awful IMO.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby nadir » 2010-03-04 08:57

what i realize is that debian-users tend more than others to use all kind of de's/wm's (some use this, some use that). nontheless i would think of gnome as the default (more or less, but more less than more). not that it would matter...i'm just happy i can use any wm i like without being an outsider.

edbarx: i can see the trouble you got. i too changed the de after kde4 arrived in kubuntu. lots of people did. but lots do seem to like it too. perhaps let it go for now and come back to it after a while (when expectations are not that high anymore). whenever i use kde3 i think: wow, thats a cool environment. fast, reliable and easy. its a pitty.
anyway: good luck.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby Roel63 » 2010-03-04 12:03

sir fer wrote:I can only imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the KDE devs when the Debian default was changed to GNOME (using Debian since sarge)


So, what was the reason that the Debian default was set to Gnome? And the reason that it is still the default, and never changed?
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby Bro.Tiag » 2010-03-04 14:40

Roel63 wrote:
sir fer wrote:I can only imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the KDE devs when the Debian default was changed to GNOME (using Debian since sarge)


So, what was the reason that the Debian default was set to Gnome? And the reason that it is still the default, and never changed?

Originally, I think it was to do with questions regarding QT (and thus KDE) meeting the DFSG.

Cheers
ps - the first time I ever saw a debian install, it had Window Maker as the window manager.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby edbarx » 2010-03-04 15:10

nadir wrote:i too changed the de after kde4 arrived in kubuntu. lots of people did. but lots do seem to like it too.


The problem is not that I dislike it, but that it is misbehaving. I cannot use a menu system that closes itself as soon as I release the mouse button. The only workaround I found is to hold the mouse button for about a second or more.

I do not usually change anything without a reason - KDE 4 is forcing me to try another DE, but is it rational to relearn everything? There is a way out of this mess, but that requires me to debug the program responsible for the classic menu system - it is only a mouse event.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby nadir » 2010-03-04 18:12

I do not usually change anything without a reason - KDE 4 is forcing me to try another DE, but is it rational to relearn everything?

yes, i got it that way. i am not always able to say what i want to (english ain't that easy for me, german neither)
my main point is just what you say: is it rational to relearn everything? (when i changed i was a greenhorn, so it was no biggie, but you are very used to kde). please post back how you will decide in the end...though i already think you will stick with it.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby smallchange » 2010-03-04 18:46

nadir wrote:
I do not usually change anything without a reason - KDE 4 is forcing me to try another DE, but is it rational to relearn everything?

yes, i got it that way. i am not always able to say what i want to (english ain't that easy for me, german neither)
my main point is just what you say: is it rational to relearn everything? (when i changed i was a greenhorn, so it was no biggie, but you are very used to kde). please post back how you will decide in the end...though i already think you will stick with it.


Besides the launcher problem you are having, which I did not have, I think that KDE 4 is different enough from KDE 3.5 that people are forced to learn a new environment because KDE 3.5 is going away and KDE 4 is a different environment. The expectation people have that KDE 4 will be something they are familiar with from KDE 3.5 simply turns out to not be true. It then becomes a choice of which new environment to learn, or how many to learn. I did learn the KDE 4 environment, and I found it to be different than other environments and very useful when I got used to it. I found it to be as fast or faster than KDE 3.5 but it is large and complex and still changing rapidly. XFCE on the other hand is quite simple, very much like what I think of as a standard window manager, and has all the features I need. I think I opted for simplicity, at least for now.
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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby canci » 2010-03-06 12:11

squeezing the best out of your Squeeze:

- WM: Openbox
- file manager: Thunar (very customizable with scripts)
- gpicview: Windows XP style picture viewer
- feh: setting wallpapers
- tint2: taskbar
- obmenu: edits openbox menus
- obmixer: mixer applet for alsamixergui (not in repos though)
- gnome-power-manager: in case you're on a laptop
- osmo: cool calender app
- I edit my gtkrc's manually
- if you use kde apps (I just can't live without Okular), systemsettings is a good call to install in order to make your kde/qt apps use gtk themes.
- slim login manager (although it's allegedly not developed any more, so i'll probably ditch it once lxdm is stable enough - that won't be squeeze then)
I ken hez kinvulf beck? I ken hez riesnible modereyshn? Kthnxbai!

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Re: DEs & WMs for Squeeze: Suggestions

Postby beavenburt » 2010-03-06 14:53

I've a new found love for xfce here. For stability, ease of use, resources and features it's unsurpassed at the moment. I think someone else mentioned this prior but, it's also not going in the same stupid glossy, widget weirdness, release too early direction that kde and gnome appear to be heading just to satisfy the MS and Apple brigade. LXDE is also nice.
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