Package Management in Debian

[Telemachus]

I am trying to inject some zeal and fervor into the discussion but I really am not feeling it.

Agreed. I consider dpkg, apt-get, aptitude and synaptic to all be excellent tools. I have no issues with any of them.

My zeal (rage, really) was aimed at the website, not the tools. First, I think that the razor-thin distinction between daily use and major upgrades is silly and hard to follow. Second, I'm convinced that it's only there because a number of Debian devs have an irrational dislike for aptitude - based on its performance in the Sarge days.

Anyhow, as far as I know, the tools all work very well together now, except for a few odd edge cases (holds, inconsistent autoremoval defaults, lack of a surgical remove option for aptitude and perhaps a few others).

[Lou]

Hmm, i've used both of them in the past, apt-get more than anything, aptitude for 5 months. When aptitude starts sending me complex messages i get disappointed, too complex for my taste. Apt-get is on its way to be deprecated, why? i don't know.

I've been using wajig for a couple of days, it's simpler, it installs packages without 'recommends' by default, if you want them add an 'r' to the word 'install' (installr). or an 's' for suggested ones (installs) or 'rs' if you want both (installrs).

If you want to update/dist-upgrade just use: "wajig daily-upgrade", other commands i like:

wajig list-orphans
wajig purge-orphans

http://wajig.togaware.com/

[drokmed]

apt-get 'cause it has less letters to type than aptitude...

[traveler]

apt-get 'cause it has less letters to type than aptitude...

Dean mentioned it already, but apt-g<TAB> is 6 keystrokes, whereas apti<TAB> is only 5. Who types complete commands?

Changing gears: I remember being told to pick one or the other and stick with it. Just can't remember where I heard that. Anyway, I guess that ship has sailed.

[Telemachus]

Apt-get is on its way to be deprecated, why? i don't know.

Where did you hear that? I would be awfully surprised if it's true, but I've been surprised before...

[Telemachus]

Plugwash has an excellent brief discussion of these issues in another recent thread.

[AMLJ]

Um, it'd be funny if the number of letters stop you from using something, you can easilly use aliases, for example, instead of

Code: Select all

apt-get update;apt-get dist-upgrade

I use

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up

And on my machine, 'up' means:

Code: Select all

aptitude update;aptitude dist-upgrade/code]

Also, instead of
[code]apt-get install foo

which has 19 character if I didn't make a mistake counting them, I use

Code: Select all

install foo

which has 11 characters.

So number of letters doesn't seem important at all... I mean, who cares, you can use an alias instead of that command. Now no matter which one's better, apt-get or aptitude, I'm just saying number of letters should not stop you from using the better tool.

[drokmed]

apt-get 'cause it has less letters to type than aptitude...

doh! looks like my dry humor doesn't work here... oh well

[AMLJ]

apt-get 'cause it has less letters to type than aptitude...

doh! looks like my dry humor doesn't work here... oh well

Sorry!
Thought you were serious drok, now could you please tell me what you really think. I'm intereated...

Thanks.

[Telemachus]

And on my machine, 'up' means:

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aptitude update;aptitude dist-upgrade

I recommend switching that alias to this:

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aptitude update && aptitude dist-upgrade

The difference between && and ; is that && (which means logical AND) will only try to perform the second command if the first one runs successfully. The other method will try the second command, even if the first fails. In this case, that is unlikely to break anything, but && is still a better idea for chaining commands where the later ones depend on the success of the earlier ones.

[AMLJ]

And on my machine, 'up' means:

Code: Select all

aptitude update;aptitude dist-upgrade

I recommend switching that alias to this:

Code: Select all

aptitude update && aptitude dist-upgrade

The difference between && and ; is that && (which means logical AND) will only try to perform the second command if the first one runs successfully. The other method will try the second command, even if the first fails. In this case, that is unlikely to break anything, but && is still a better idea for chaining commands where the later ones depend on the success of the earlier ones.

You are right, thank you.

[nadir]

For me apt-get works. I know a few options i don't know for aptitude, so i use apt-get.
I don't say it is better, or as good as aptitude. I say it does all i need to do.

About every two months i run into more serious problems. Usually a package can't be installed and can't be removed.
dpkg returns an error-code, which i can't solve. Then i am in a bit of trouble.
In such cases i sometimes use aptitude (sometimes it solves that problem, sometimes it doesn't solve them neither).
That is in my Debian-testing installation in VBox, i use it to test everything i can think of or read about (login-managers, window-managers, desktop-environments, tools of all kind). It is quite a mess.
I can't remember i had such problems ( and had to use aptitude) on my main installation (might be i simply don't remember it).

[Lou]

Where did you hear that? I would be awfully surprised if it's true, but I've been surprised before...

I didn't hear it anywhere, it's my perception: the emphasis on the use of aptitude, the apt-howto labeled as 'obsolete', etc.

[Telemachus]

Where did you hear that? I would be awfully surprised if it's true, but I've been surprised before...

I didn't hear it anywhere, it's my perception: the emphasis on the use of aptitude, the apt-howto labeled as 'obsolete', etc.

Ah, k. You stated it as a fact, which confused me. (For what it's worth, I think you're wrong. Before apt-get supported autoremoval, it did feel like Debian was pushing towards aptitude, but now things seem to have stabilized, and I doubt very much that apt-get will be deprecated.)

[craigevil]

Wonders how apt-get can be obsolete when it is being actively maintained. The apt-get howto at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/
is labeled obsolete most likely because noone wanted to be bothered rewriting it for all of the new things in apt.

As long as Ubuntu uses apt-get it isn't going any where.

There have been several apt updates in the past week or so.


View topic - new version 0.8.0 of APT - transition complete
http://www.sidux.com/index.php?name=PNp ... ght=aptget


Hm by going to http://release.debian.org/transitions/apt.html found a new app Computer-janitor. Kinda like bleach and fslint, but it doesn't require a ton of Gnome, also doesn't seem to find as much. But then again I keep a pretty clean system.

computer-janitor and computer-janitor-gtk find and remove cruft from
your system. The first one is a command line program, the latter has
a graphical user interface.

Cruft is anything that shouldn't be on the system, but is. Stretching
the definition, it is also things that should be on the system, but
aren't. Examples:

· Packages that were installed because something else depended on
them, but now nothing depends on them anymore. Typically this
includes large numbers of libraries.

· Packages that are no longer supported by the current release of
the operating system. This can, for example, be applications
whose development have stopped and that have no support,
including no security support, anymore. Keeping such applica‐
tions installed can be dangerous.

Configuration tweaks that are missing from the system, but
which would be there if the system was installed from scratch.
For example, mount options for filesystems: the relatime option
is an example.

[drokmed]

As long as Ubuntu uses apt-get it isn't going any where.

Damn good reason to obsolete apt right there!

(my dry humor again)

[anticapitalista]

apt-get due to habit.

[julian516]

apt-get seems to do what I need done, supplemented by synaptic perhaps 20% of the time. I'll confess I do not have a clear handle on aptitude. Perhaps when I do I'll see the advantage, assuming there is one.

[dotlj]

There are some differences, but the differences are small.

In searching for example, aptitude search something will return entries that match the name, but tell you if it's installed or not.
apt-cache search something returns a longer list of packages containing the name anywhere but doesn't tell you if any are installed or not.

probably some options for both of them will return the same results. I haven't had any problems with either but follow the recommendation and use aptitude.

[tdockery97]

Does anyone use debdelta in conjunction with apt-get?