Debian Ciel -- My Theme Proposal for Squeeze

[omenest]

I couldn't believe my eyes when my system booted after this "upgrade" to desktop-base 6.0.0. package.
Theme that won the contest is absolutely revolting. As already said by other members of this community: 'What were you thinking?!'

I downgraded to 5.0.6 desktop-base and made sure to:

Code: Select all

echo "desktop-base hold" | dpkg --set-selections

Good riddance, kiddie theme!

[cynwulf]

I don't have desktop-base installed so I've missed out on that.

[canci]

It's still in Sid (lol, almost wrote Squid. That's when you mix packages, right? ).

Here is some "consensus" from the Debian mailing list about the decision making process:

I've been following the discussion on -desktop and, FWIW, I thank you
for having established a decision process. More generally, I thank the
-desktop team for having worked on the topic, a topic to which nobody
was paying attention to even if it was self-evident that time was
ticking out.

Let's not forget that do-ocracy is the default decision making device in
Debian: who does the work, gets to decide. A nice feature of do-ocracy
is that it is very easy to get an opportunity to decide: just do the
work

So please, go ahead in implementing your decision, and thanks for that.

> To all people criticizing the decision-making process, feel free to be
> here on time for Wheezy, participate in theme making, discussion,
> packaging, whatever, I really think we need sensible input on this.

I'm confident that everybody which is now unhappy on how the decision
has been made will be there for Wheezy, helping out -desktop starting
from day 1 of the development cycle. Of course input from everyone is
welcome also on how similar matters should be decided *in the future*,
but I believe comments should be better postponed past Squeeze release,
when we will all be way more relaxed and in planning mode.

Cheers.

So yes, that basically means if you're born without hands or are in bloody
pain because you have cancer and cannot contribute to theme creation,
then no1 gives a rat's behind what you think about it. Neat, eh?
Debian is a do-ocracy...

[omenest]

It's still in Sid (lol, almost wrote Squid. That's when you mix packages, right? ).

Here is some "consensus" from the Debian mailing list about the decision making process:

I've been following the discussion on -desktop and, FWIW, I thank you
for having established a decision process. More generally, I thank the
-desktop team for having worked on the topic, a topic to which nobody
was paying attention to even if it was self-evident that time was
ticking out.

Let's not forget that do-ocracy is the default decision making device in
Debian: who does the work, gets to decide. A nice feature of do-ocracy
is that it is very easy to get an opportunity to decide: just do the
work

So please, go ahead in implementing your decision, and thanks for that.

> To all people criticizing the decision-making process, feel free to be
> here on time for Wheezy, participate in theme making, discussion,
> packaging, whatever, I really think we need sensible input on this.

I'm confident that everybody which is now unhappy on how the decision
has been made will be there for Wheezy, helping out -desktop starting
from day 1 of the development cycle. Of course input from everyone is
welcome also on how similar matters should be decided *in the future*,
but I believe comments should be better postponed past Squeeze release,
when we will all be way more relaxed and in planning mode.

Cheers.

So yes, that basically means if you're born without hands or are in bloody
pain because you have cancer and cannot contribute to theme creation,
then no1 gives a rat's behind what you think about it. Neat, eh?
Debian is a do-ocracy...

Success of the open source phenomena was based on the bazaar principles: work of what started as a small base of hackers received tremendous feedback from everybody that got in contact with the code these hackers produced. This feedback enabled prompt responses, bug fixes, new features added and a vast increase of base programmers that did the work on FOSS projects, making it thrive in the realm of world wide web.

In this case, we have a select closed group of individuals that refuses to acknowledge public peer review and instead pats each other on their backs for doing a good job. Meritocracy as a principle might even pass for kernel design (e.g. Linus still calling the shots and directing the general development goals of kernel), but this is artwork we are talking about. For all the practical purposes, this select piece of art will be viewed far more then kernel panic messages, say. Take real-world example: paintings in museums aren't viewed only by artists who painted them. Joe Regular probably never drew anything more complex than tic-tac-toe grid in his life, but he still has every right to go to the museum and voice his opinion about paintings he sees there.

I'm sorry for having to resort to such primitive parallels here, but after seeing the said artwork in action and realizing the merits of 'do-ocracy', this seems like the appropriate approach to reach out to some.

[canci]

I think the parallel to art is only half right. Art can be anything you want. Whether people like it or not,
is their problem. Whether you make it for the masses, or just for yourself, is also your decision.
I see the Debian theme as having 2 functions: 1. the artistic expression and 2. a practical dimension.
Whether you want to respect no. 2, is entirely up to you. But I think it would make sense to ask someone.

Voting on what theme is getting chosen is an entirely different thing and should, whenever possible, be
open to anybody. I understand that there is a horizontal discrimination when it comes to voting on what
scheduler is to be used in the kernel or similar. But everyone has an opinion on art (or art for decorative
purposes, or whatever you might call OS themes). Also, it's not like voting on what colour you like is akin
to assessing Shakespeare.

But what really strikes me here is that they nonchalantly discriminate everyone who actually is not even
able to contribute to themes. I am talking about disabled people, about users who do not know how
to use Inkscape, or do not have the time to go into it. Practically, this more or less discriminated everyone
who was not doing things in the Desktop mailing list. So, if you are only subscribed to the kernel list
(if such a thing exists), then you had little chance of even knowing about the vote? Does it work like that?
And even though you might work on very essential stuff no one can live without, you are left out. Bummer!

[nadir]

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... me-843935/
leads to:
http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/11/12/de ... ktop-team/

Perhaps it is of interest (not much posts, but they seem to confirm that the new theme is -mhh-...
a bit strange for others too).

But, like said by the actual alpha-animal, i did do nothing, hence i ain't got the right to complain.


Will try to get over it.

[canci]

@nadir: Can I burn you and make soap of you, you "Nichtsnutz"?

[nadir]

I prefer "Tagedieb", but "Nichtsnutz" is ok.
I am at the beginning of my career...

[canci]

You "Müßiggänger"

[nadir]

Kidding aside you really should keep up the theme-working (for Debian).
Or if not for Debian for another project.

That is serious.
I think several people have realized the quality of your work.
I for one tend to say: "foad" and let it go (in such cases). But that is the wrong way.

[canci]

Thanks. The work will continue. I'm planning on brushing up my Inkscape and Gimp skills in order to make another sky based theme,
with more contrast this time. Ciel is done for me (time for LibreCiel, LOL), but hey, anyone can tinker with it. I was happy to contribute.

[andreas_1]

i keep hoping that this space fun is some kind of elaborate prank

this may sound irrational, but if lenny had looked like this i probably would never have started using debian, knowing little about the underlying technology back then and judging by the the information most easily available to me: the modest yet beautiful look that suggested similar "inner" values. i do not wish to offend the creator of the theme, it's consistent and original, but i think that it really doesn't do this heavy-weight (as in "to be taken serious") operating system justice with its christmas look.
one might say "it's just the surface" and "you can easily change it", but i think you should neither underestimate the power of surfaces nor that of default settings.

and a more general thought: why isn't the artwork subjected to the same evaluation mechanisms that everything else is in debian? put it in testing, get feedback, then adapt. for example, some themes look good at first sight but turn out to make you uncomfortable over time (e.g. microsoft cut out the high-saturation turquoise from vista in 7, it made a good wow-effect at first sight, but it was too "thick" on the long run).

i am sorry for this rant and i have learned my lesson, i will try to put aside my ocd and start contributing myself for the next release.

[nadir]

I don't think htere is anything which can be done anymore.
It won't hurt to post what one thinks of the new default theme neither:
http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/11/12/de ... ktop-team/

It might well be that it is my fault, but after each upgrade the FunSpace is getting re-created as the background of grub2.
That is not funny.
I don't think: it is only the default. I think: it _is_ the default.

There is a thread at the german forum, and there is a thread at linuxquestions.
Most of the people see it the way it is seen here.

Unbelievable.

[llivv]

while you are figuring out how to make your grub custom theme entries persistent across upgrades
just rename your pixmap of choice SpaceFun.png if that is what it's called. I suppose I should test that myself... ah ha

[nadir]

that is all fine.
Thing is: i am not much in the mood to fiddle with that. I got other things to do at the moment.
As long the default is not as ugly as it is now, i wouldn't and couldn't care much about it.

And hence a default-theme which is the minimum of what everyone can live with would be cool.
Something not too ... well... something which does not ... something which one can ignore.

thanks for the idea. in case i got the time i will try that.

[alwayslost]

Spacefun you have to be joking? I can't change that fast enough. It looks like something a ten year old would have on his or her pajamas!

[Pick2]

I don't really like Space Fun , but it does go with their "Toy Story" Themed distribution names ... Just sayin'
I prefer medium gray background most of the time , with an occasional Hubble Pic , CPU silicon , or maybe a Nuclear explosion once in a while.

[llivv]

does anyone else notice grub menu background is transparent....
when I change grub menu colors, "surprise", when did that happen?

[canci]

does anyone else notice grub menu background is transparent....
when I change grub menu colors, "surprise", when did that happen?

You mean, you can see the monitor's circuitry?

[llivv]

does anyone else notice grub menu background is transparent....
when I change grub menu colors, "surprise", when did that happen?

You mean, you can see the monitor's circuitry?

monitor circutry?
the lcd is so thin, I see the wall behind it......