renatov wrote:You don't need to "worship", you're exaggerating. But seriously, if you really don't even care about Open Software Movement and if you just want to point and click, withou knowing what your're doing, just to "use it", I think there are better options than Linux, such as Windows like you said.
I don't use Linux because I can for the open source movement, I use it because like I said, its a better operating system.. and I can point and click using GNOME 2.
renatov wrote:Yeah, a little standardization wouldn't be bad. But keep in mind that linux kernel is only a package among many others. GNU is not Linux.
If your getting this technical, then I don't see a point discussing this with you anymore.
ivanovnegro wrote:I do not see any fragmentation done by Debian
Go into Aptitude, now go and look at Apache version in the repository. Its Debian's modified version of it. There is nothing wrong with the original version. Install the Debian version and then install the official version. Look at the huge inconsistency... or try applying installation documentation of the official version to the Debian one. It won't work.
Thats fragmentation. Now go and have a look at 95% of the application versions in the repository. Total fragmentation!
Modified and distributed versions should be renamed IMO, like Firefox is with Iceweasal.
ivanovnegro wrote:It seems to me some people are not understanding neither Debian nor Linux. Freedom and choice is something really valid and relevant, if you go the Debian way you will gain this.
No where does it say on kernel.org that Linux is about freedom and choice, thats GNU's philosophy. I think you still can modify your software all you want, but I reckon that modified software then shouldn't be commercially distribute under the same name - which is why BSD does not have a fragmentation problem.
You've also been brainwashed if you really believe you have freedom and choice, because your actually chained to a repository.
Try upgrading Zlib on Debian from the official source. I bet you Debian will brake, because Debian has been compiled against a modified version, meaning future upgrades are impossible. Nice freedom.
ivanovnegro wrote:If you prefer not to go with an ideology and you are a pragmatist, why don't you use Ubuntu etc or just change to your beloved Windows or Mac
Debian and Linux are almost the same thing - modified Linux systems. The only difference is that they are not fully compatible with each other, due to (unnecessary) modification.
ivanovnegro wrote:I see here some new people on the board discussing about irrelevant things, what the heck?
This has got to be the most stupid thing I have heard all day. Don't you think the world would be a pretty boring place if we all had the same interests?!
ivanovnegro wrote:love to see some folks going to the mothership because they understood it is a better way.
There is nothing super about Debian over Ubuntu. They have a close commonality. Infact, Ubuntu has a larger repository, therefore can do more than Debian.
I'm here because the Ubuntu community are politically correct morons that live in a delusional utopia of 'family-friendly'. I can't be myself on thoughs forums, where as on the Debian forum I can express my opinion in full without having a mod ban me because he or she disagrees.
ivanovnegro wrote:In fact Ubuntu is so highly marketed that the people do not find its way to Debian.
Debian use to be awesome. I started using Linux a bit over a year ago and found Debian 5 before I found Ubuntu. I recently was going to switch to Debian, but it has degenerated from version 5 to 6, so I have stuck with Ubuntu.
ivanovnegro wrote:Freedom can hurt sometimes, that is something people do not understand, you have to fight for your freedom, that is why I use Debian and I will take the hard route if I have to, just to gain that what Debian can offer me.
As I said above, there is no freedom when you are bound to a repository full of modified software. Debian doesn't offer you anything, it mearly shows you applications and restricts them against you which is against its philosophy. This is not freedom, its ideology.[/quote]
ivanovnegro wrote:I will also consider one day to buy just free/libre hardware, then any of this driver issues could be solved without tweaking.
The only way to fix it will be with change, and for change their must be driver modification.
I personally would not buy a product which was not working on introduction.
ivanovnegro wrote:But there are users coming from other OSs too, how to treat them?
Its very hard with all the fragmentation. They think Linux, but then they see "Debian" or "Fedora" on there screen and become confused and run away. I.E fragmentation, hence <1% market share.
ivanovnegro wrote:It would not be nice to treat them as Ubuntu users.
Treat them as Linux users, as this is what they are.
ivanovnegro wrote:I find to have a beginners guide is something great for them and yes I will even try to help some people not having the will to read everything
They shouldn't have to read everything. 'User knows everything' is why Linux has failed as a desktop operating system.
edbarx wrote:Although, I found a very serious kernel bug that may, in the not-so-far-away-future, prevent me from using GNU/Linux, I don't think, I will ever have a valid reason to quit using it.
A bug in Debian's modified kernel is not the end of the world. Build your own Linux system using the official sources.
edbarx wrote:... the fact that a program is graphical, doesn't necessarily mean, it is better than another program having a text based interface.
True, but graphical programs are almost always easier to use than text base program. GUI's were created for our convenience.
edbarx wrote:Moreover, there are other programs that don't have an interface and yet they do very important tasks. One of these programs is the kernel itself.
That was a really bad example dude.
edbarx wrote:I didn't like the way grub-pc was integrated, and decided that a bootloader, should be totally independent of any installation.
Yeah that sucks and make Linux look weak!
Lou wrote:your incompetence as a Debian user should not detain you from enjoying your computer.
You seem to have failed understanding the difference between not knowing how, and knowing how but have better things to do.
Lou wrote:Troll wrote:Why are Windows users retards?
You are the best example
Lou wrote:Has the word 'security' mean anything to you?
Unfortunately you failed on that assumption also. It also points out you have not read this thread.
In regards to security. Not everyone gives a crap, some people just want to USE their computer, rather building sand castles around it. Do you really, really think everyone in the world is just like you? LOL please man..
ivanovnegro wrote:What is going on with this market share nonsense? Debian is yet the most widely used Linux, be it itself or as the base for others.
Which year are you living in dude?!