The Decline of this Forum

[mojoman]

I don't post here very often, but I read this forum a lot and I agree with you about the forum declination. In my opinion, recently there has been a mass migration from ubuntu to Debian (after that crap ubuntu 11.04 was released) and now the forum is full of former ubuntu users that keep their same old lazy and annoying ubuntu habits when posting here. They use this forum as their first way to solve their problems, they don't use google or man pages at all and some times they don't even read what people are saying in their own topics! Of courser it does not apply to all former ubuntu users, but this description suits most of them.

I agree.

If I'm correct, then it's up to you to don't let this forum declinate. If you, more active members, don't tolerate "ubuntu behavior" in this Debian forum, then these annoying, noisy and stupid ubuntu users shall go back to their holes, in ubuntu forums, where this kind of behavior is largely tolerated.

I don't agree. Those who tried have been banned for it.

I have to say that Rita's summation of what happened in this forum is spot on.

[monkeyboy]

It’s worse on other boards. That is why I am using Debian more often and spending additional time lurking on this forum.

[Troll]

This board is awesome because there is Freedom!

[Bulkley]

By now, older posters should have noticed a trend. When there are a host of technical problems, we have lots of threads about them. When Debian is running smoothly, we get minor complaints and threads like this one. Just watch how fast this board comes alive the next time Debian has a serious flaw.

[Troll]

I don't want to put everyone on a negative, but Debian is dying.. and so is Linux for that matter.
We can stop it by fragmenting it into distro's, and work together to create not only the Linux kernel, but also Linux Userland, and Linux GUI.
Right now Linux is just the kernel with a collection of applications, then rolled into a distro and called something else. What a nightmare... and distribution licences need to state that software must be rebranded (such as Firefox-iceweal) if its distributed after being modified, because there is too much inconsistency right now with Distro's insisting on tampering with applications when they are fine. Like I said earlier, go and have a look at Apache tutorials on Google and you will see nearly all of them arn't applicable to your distro because their distro has changed it differently from yours.

[bmc5311]

I don't want to put everyone on a negative, but Debian is dying.. and so is Linux for that matter.

(at you, not with you)

[sossego]

Entropy is the end result for the entire Universe, Troll; you've told us nothing new here.

[Troll]

I don't want to put everyone on a negative, but Debian is dying.. and so is Linux for that matter.

(at you, not with you)

Why are you laughing at me dumb ass? You seen statistics lately?
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-mark ... =1&qprid=9

Linux is the only one sitting there going no where.
People are going out and buying Macs... closed source OS with expensive hardware! Linux gives it away and still no one wants it. Us Linux users will be extinct unless we face that we have a crisis and do something about it.

[sossego]

Are Linux and Android considered separate entities in the data you referred to?
Does the same apply to MacOSX and iOS?

There is also the increasing use of mobile systems over Desktop ones. How will this affect the statistics each year?


http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operati ... 1&qprid=10

Look at the different releases and versions of the same operating systems:
1) Six versions of Windows.
2) X11 is listed as an operating system.
3) Seven MacOS systems. The i-types are MacOS derivatives.
4.) Four versions of Linux. Android is Linux based.
5.) I thought pike was a programming language not an operating system.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-mark ... 1&qprid=11

Three versions of Windows and two of MacOS are listed on that page.

One thing a person learns about statistics is that any and all data can be manipulated. This is due to the dependency on a sample of a population and not the entire population itself.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operati ... =1&qprid=8

What are the exact number of users for each system and how was this data collected?

[renatov]

Don't be so apocalyptic huahauhaua... GNU will never die, it's much greater than a simple GUI or OS feature, come on. It's all about sharing, improving and working togheter. Open Source Movement can't be reduced to an ISO, it's a filosophy, a way of thinking and being

And this kind of thing other OS like MAC and Windows could never offer. There will always be a lot of people around the world that simply don't fit to these mainstream solutions. And it doesn't matter if the mass public prefer something else, whatever.

In my opinion, it's similar to what happens with Heavy Metal fans (like me). It's not just about music, it's a way of life. What you're talking, troll, is similar to someone that tells this to a headbanger: "Hey man, Heavy Metal is dying... have you seen the latelly declination of Motorhead sells and the high ascention of Justin Bieber? People don't like overdrive, it's so yesterday. Today, the new trend is stupid kids singing like chicken laying eggs, and Metallica should change his style or it will die soon!"

Do you really think a headbanger will stop listening to Slayer to become a Britney Spear fan? And analogue to this, do you really think true Linux users will give up on Open Source to become Windows or MAC users? That's why people are laughing at you

edit: sorry for the English errors

[Lou]

Linux is the only one sitting there going no where.
People are going out and buying Macs... closed source OS with expensive hardware! Linux gives it away and still no one wants it. Us Linux users will be extinct unless we face that we have a crisis and do something about it.

Statistics mean nothing, you use Windows because it's all you know; you use Mac because it's pretty, you use Linux because of different reasons. This is not a competition, you use what you want.

If you're too lazy to read, learn a different system, if you are too stupid and impatient to comprehend it, move on, but don't bad mouth it because it's NOT a 'point and click' toy system you are familiar with. Who gives a crap if the 'unwashed masses' with their ipods and tablets do not find it kool?
Face it, they can't read, follow instructions, they're lazy, that's why most technological advances are made abroad, everyone wants to be a lawyer, the law is bullshit, the one with more money wins. Linux is hard work! Lot of studying and practicing.

If they (the windowtards) want to use Debian, then they have to go to debian.org, read the wiki, the apt-get howto, this is the minimal requirement. Why? Because they are using Debian! If they are using Slackware, they have to read the the Slackbook.

Now, there is LinuxMint and Ubuntu just for them , why don't they use it? Because they want to be perceived as geeks, as people who know something about Linux by using Debian...

Now some people think Debian does not allow freedom. Freedom to do what? That we are elitist and old dinosaurs because we tell them how things are done the correct way.

And still, some useful fools, think that we should have you idiots inside the tent pissing out, rather than (like now) outside the tent pissing in.

[Lou]

Yup, back in the days of Lavene, hallowed be her name and memory, it was more like a big family; we had our squabbles and disagreements [...].

Rita: that was a great description of the situation. Thank you.

[sossego]

As cold as Lou is with his statement, I agree with him.

One must be willing to learn even if it means failures and obstacles.
Quite a few of us here and other forums try to make it easy for others to have a foothold on Linux and other operating systems. If a person is unwilling to listen or look, then that is the individual's fault and not the community's.

[Troll]

Are Linux and Android considered separate entities in the data you referred to?
Does the same apply to MacOSX and iOS?

Android is not Linux. Its an operating system that was folked from Linux and has taken its own path. Its not even open sourced anymore.
Mac was folked from BSD, but its not BSD.

There is also the increasing use of mobile systems over Desktop ones. How will this affect the statistics each year?

Thats why you look at Desktop statistics only.[/quote]

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operati ... 1&qprid=10
Look at the different releases and versions of the same operating systems:

Yes, it is a flawed model, but it doesn't take a mathematician to see that Linux is the only one sitting there.

One thing a person learns about statistics is that any and all data can be manipulated. This is due to the dependency on a sample of a population and not the entire population itself.

Go upto someone on the street and ask them if they know what Linux is.

Don't be so apocalyptic huahauhaua... GNU will never die, it's much greater than a simple GUI or OS feature, come on. It's all about sharing, improving and working togheter. Open Source Movement can't be reduced to an ISO, it's a filosophy, a way of thinking and being

I'm not being apocalyptic. Linux has been around for 20 years and has never reached over 1% market share.
I don't use software because I worship an ideology, I use it to do just that - use it.

And this kind of thing other OS like MAC and Windows could never offer. There will always be a lot of people around the world that simply don't fit to these mainstream solutions. And it doesn't matter if the mass public prefer something else, whatever.

Linux NEEDS more people, because when more people use it, bigger companies create quality software for it (Like Oracle with VirtualBox). Right now the integrity of Linux is a joke. I some times wonder why I use it. I enjoyed my computer more in Windows, because I was actually using it. In Linux I'm always having to fix something, or some crap.
I continue to use Linux because it is a better O/S, but I really cannot be bothered with its high maintenance.

In my opinion, it's similar to what happens with Heavy Metal fans (like me). It's not just about music, it's a way of life.

If your using O/S as a way of life, then you should see a psychologist.

Do you really think a headbanger will stop listening to Slayer to become a Britney Spear fan? And analogue to this, do you really think true Linux users will give up on Open Source to become Windows or MAC users?

I am not telling people to use Windows or Mac, I am telling Linux users that we need to stop fragmenting Linux into modified distro's, because its destroying it.
The hippie philosophy is taking it to far, and modifying working software for no reason, creating incompatibility and ununiformity amongst distro's. If software is modified and redistributed, it should be renamed.

If you're too lazy to read, learn a different system

Its not that I am too lazy, I have better things to do than read user documentation every time I want to do something. Who is sad enough to spend their time reading how to use their computer, than actually just using it and enjoying it for what it is.
Again, the purpose of my outlining is to make people aware so the quality of Linux increases, because right now its a joke. Its people like you with low standards that have made the Linux platform a mess.

Windowtards

Why are Windows users retards?

That we are elitist and old dinosaurs because we tell them how things are done the correct way.

You "elitists" are pretty delusional. Your way isn't the correct way, its an artificially far fetched way. Somone whom has the time to go out of their way to type something in terminal when it can be 400% faster in GUI would indicate to me that user is 40yo and single. lol
Debian is restricted like every other distro of Linux, in that the user is restricted to repositories, and package maintainers.

The only true freedom using Linux, is building it officially, as can be instructed over at the Linux from scratch website.
Linux from scratch is not a distribution. Its a tutorial for using the official Linux platform.

[sossego]

Android is not Linux. Its an operating system that was forked from Linux and has taken its own path. Its not even open sourced anymore.Mac was forked from BSD, but its not BSD.

This is not true. Android uses a custom version of the Linux kernel. MacOS was influenced by the BSDs but is not a direct descendant.

Thats why you look at Desktop statistics only.

Everyone doesn't use a desktop.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operati ... 1&qprid=10
Look at the different releases and versions of the same operating systems:

Yes, it is a flawed model, but it doesn't take a mathematician to see that Linux is the only one sitting there.

One thing a person learns about statistics is that any and all data can be manipulated. This is due to the dependency on a sample of a population and not the entire population itself.

You need to quote me properly.

Go up to someone on the street and ask them if they know what Linux is

Go to the average person on the street and ask how anything functions and most will not be able to give you and answer.

[renatov]

If your using O/S as a way of life, then you should see a psychologist.

I am a Psychologist

I enjoyed my computer more in Windows, because I was actually using it.

Maybe you should use other OS?

I'm not being apocalyptic. Linux has been around for 20 years and has never reached over 1% market share. I don't use software because I worship an ideology, I use it to do just that - use it.

Maybe you should use other OS?

You don't need to "worship", you're exaggerating. But seriously, if you really don't even care about Open Software Movement and if you just want to point and click, withou knowing what your're doing, just to "use it", I think there are better options than Linux, such as Windows like you said.

I am telling Linux users that we need to stop fragmenting Linux into modified distro's, because its destroying it. The hippie philosophy is taking it to far, and modifying working software for no reason, creating incompatibility and ununiformity amongst distro's.

Yeah, a little standardization wouldn't be bad. But keep in mind that linux kernel is only a package among many others. GNU is not Linux.

Well, I got to go now. See ya!

[sossego]

I am a Psychologist

Curiosidade, do qual estado?

[milomak]

he's even trolling himself by continuing to use linux

[ivanovnegro]

I do not see any fragmentation done by Debian, in fact other distros and persons do that for whatever reason, forking or redistributing Debian in another way.
It seems to me some people are not understanding neither Debian nor Linux. Freedom and choice is something really valid and relevant, if you go the Debian way you will gain this. If you prefer not to go with an ideology and you are a pragmatist, why don't you use Ubuntu etc or just change to your beloved Windows or Mac. Marketshare is not relevant for Debian anyway and statistics are just bs.

I see here some new people on the board discussing about irrelevant things, what the heck?

I admit I like this forum and it has great sources of informations especially made by oldtime members, they could be maybe pigheaded, but I have big respect of them. I can also understand that here is a bunch of new users coming from Ubuntu with a different mentality and not understanding and reading the forum guidelines nor the Debian Wiki etc, I personally dislike this too but I am also new here and I know my way around and there are even Ubuntu users with some more experience and I love to see some folks going to the mothership because they understood it is a better way. In fact Ubuntu is so highly marketed that the people do not find its way to Debian, that is why I started once with Ubuntu but I am really in love with Debian, heck I even put some links in my sig for newcomers to read and not to ask every little question because that is the way I learned about Debian and it has a great documentation.

Freedom can hurt sometimes, that is something people do not understand, you have to fight for your freedom, that is why I use Debian and I will take the hard route if I have to, just to gain that what Debian can offer me. I will also consider one day to buy just free/libre hardware, then any of this driver issues could be solved without tweaking.

But there are users coming from other OSs too, how to treat them? It would not be nice to treat them as Ubuntu users. I find to have a beginners guide is something great for them and yes I will even try to help some people not having the will to read everything but I will provide them links and docs too. For me there are no dumb questions but there is a guideline, so if you subscribe to this forum of course try to behave as it was supposed to.

[edbarx]

Although, I found a very serious kernel bug that may, in the not-so-far-away-future, prevent me from using GNU/Linux, I don't think, I will ever have a valid reason to quit using it. GNU/Linux offers many tools that Windows users can only dream of having!

As a last note, the fact that a program is graphical, doesn't necessarily mean, it is better than another program having a text based interface. Moreover, there are other programs that don't have an interface and yet they do very important tasks. One of these programs is the kernel itself.

Maybe, I am not a "normal" Linux user. Having unnecessary control over how to use a program or a set of programs, irritates me. In fact, I didn't like the way grub-pc was integrated, and decided that a bootloader, should be totally independent of any installation.

@OP
The strength of GNU/Linux lies in the very fact you are contesting: the freedom to fork and develop independently, is the soul of GNU/Linux.