The Decline of this Forum

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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby mojoman » 2011-07-22 17:23

renatov wrote:I don't post here very often, but I read this forum a lot and I agree with you about the forum declination. In my opinion, recently there has been a mass migration from ubuntu to Debian (after that crap ubuntu 11.04 was released) and now the forum is full of former ubuntu users that keep their same old lazy and annoying ubuntu habits when posting here. They use this forum as their first way to solve their problems, they don't use google or man pages at all and some times they don't even read what people are saying in their own topics! Of courser it does not apply to all former ubuntu users, but this description suits most of them.

I agree.

renatov wrote:If I'm correct, then it's up to you to don't let this forum declinate. If you, more active members, don't tolerate "ubuntu behavior" in this Debian forum, then these annoying, noisy and stupid ubuntu users shall go back to their holes, in ubuntu forums, where this kind of behavior is largely tolerated.

I don't agree. Those who tried have been banned for it.

I have to say that Rita's summation of what happened in this forum is spot on.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby monkeyboy » 2011-07-22 17:58

It’s worse on other boards. That is why I am using Debian more often and spending additional time lurking on this forum.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby Troll » 2011-07-22 18:04

This board is awesome because there is Freedom! :D
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby Bulkley » 2011-07-22 18:20

By now, older posters should have noticed a trend. When there are a host of technical problems, we have lots of threads about them. When Debian is running smoothly, we get minor complaints and threads like this one. Just watch how fast this board comes alive the next time Debian has a serious flaw.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby Troll » 2011-07-22 18:24

I don't want to put everyone on a negative, but Debian is dying.. and so is Linux for that matter.
We can stop it by fragmenting it into distro's, and work together to create not only the Linux kernel, but also Linux Userland, and Linux GUI.
Right now Linux is just the kernel with a collection of applications, then rolled into a distro and called something else. What a nightmare... and distribution licences need to state that software must be rebranded (such as Firefox-iceweal) if its distributed after being modified, because there is too much inconsistency right now with Distro's insisting on tampering with applications when they are fine. Like I said earlier, go and have a look at Apache tutorials on Google and you will see nearly all of them arn't applicable to your distro because their distro has changed it differently from yours.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby bmc5311 » 2011-07-22 18:26

Troll wrote:I don't want to put everyone on a negative, but Debian is dying.. and so is Linux for that matter.


:lol: :lol: :lol: (at you, not with you)
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby sossego » 2011-07-22 18:30

Entropy is the end result for the entire Universe, Troll; you've told us nothing new here.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby Troll » 2011-07-22 18:31

bmc5311 wrote:
Troll wrote:I don't want to put everyone on a negative, but Debian is dying.. and so is Linux for that matter.


:lol: :lol: :lol: (at you, not with you)

Why are you laughing at me dumb ass? You seen statistics lately?
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-mark ... =1&qprid=9

Linux is the only one sitting there going no where.
People are going out and buying Macs... closed source OS with expensive hardware! Linux gives it away and still no one wants it. Us Linux users will be extinct unless we face that we have a crisis and do something about it.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby sossego » 2011-07-22 19:00

Are Linux and Android considered separate entities in the data you referred to?
Does the same apply to MacOSX and iOS?

There is also the increasing use of mobile systems over Desktop ones. How will this affect the statistics each year?


http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operati ... 1&qprid=10

Look at the different releases and versions of the same operating systems:
1) Six versions of Windows.
2) X11 is listed as an operating system.
3) Seven MacOS systems. The i-types are MacOS derivatives.
4.) Four versions of Linux. Android is Linux based.
5.) I thought pike was a programming language not an operating system.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-mark ... 1&qprid=11

Three versions of Windows and two of MacOS are listed on that page.

One thing a person learns about statistics is that any and all data can be manipulated. This is due to the dependency on a sample of a population and not the entire population itself.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operati ... =1&qprid=8

What are the exact number of users for each system and how was this data collected?
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby renatov » 2011-07-22 19:05

Don't be so apocalyptic huahauhaua... GNU will never die, it's much greater than a simple GUI or OS feature, come on. It's all about sharing, improving and working togheter. Open Source Movement can't be reduced to an ISO, it's a filosophy, a way of thinking and being :D

And this kind of thing other OS like MAC and Windows could never offer. There will always be a lot of people around the world that simply don't fit to these mainstream solutions. And it doesn't matter if the mass public prefer something else, whatever.

In my opinion, it's similar to what happens with Heavy Metal fans (like me). It's not just about music, it's a way of life. What you're talking, troll, is similar to someone that tells this to a headbanger: "Hey man, Heavy Metal is dying... have you seen the latelly declination of Motorhead sells and the high ascention of Justin Bieber? People don't like overdrive, it's so yesterday. Today, the new trend is stupid kids singing like chicken laying eggs, and Metallica should change his style or it will die soon!"

Do you really think a headbanger will stop listening to Slayer to become a Britney Spear fan? And analogue to this, do you really think true Linux users will give up on Open Source to become Windows or MAC users? That's why people are laughing at you :lol:

edit: sorry for the English errors
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby Lou » 2011-07-22 19:07

Troll wrote:Linux is the only one sitting there going no where.
People are going out and buying Macs... closed source OS with expensive hardware! Linux gives it away and still no one wants it. Us Linux users will be extinct unless we face that we have a crisis and do something about it.


Statistics mean nothing, you use Windows because it's all you know; you use Mac because it's pretty, you use Linux because of different reasons. This is not a competition, you use what you want.

If you're too lazy to read, learn a different system, if you are too stupid and impatient to comprehend it, move on, but don't bad mouth it because it's NOT a 'point and click' toy system you are familiar with. Who gives a shit if the 'unwashed masses' with their ipods and tablets do not find it kool?
Face it, they can't read, follow instructions, they're lazy, that's why most technological advances are made abroad, everyone wants to be a lawyer, the law is bullshit, the one with more money wins. Linux is hard work! Lot of studying and practicing.

If they (the windowtards) want to use Debian, then they have to go to debian.org, read the wiki, the apt-get howto, this is the minimal requirement. Why? Because they are using Debian! If they are using Slackware, they have to read the the Slackbook.

Now, there is LinuxMint and Ubuntu just for them , why don't they use it? Because they want to be perceived as geeks, as people who know something about Linux by using Debian...

Now some people think Debian does not allow freedom. Freedom to do what? That we are elitist and old dinosaurs because we tell them how things are done the correct way.

And still, some useful fools, think that we should have you idiots inside the tent pissing out, rather than (like now) outside the tent pissing in.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby Lou » 2011-07-22 19:14

RitaSkeeter wrote:Yup, back in the days of Lavene, hallowed be her name and memory, it was more like a big family; we had our squabbles and disagreements [...].


Rita: that was a great description of the situation. Thank you.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby sossego » 2011-07-22 19:27

As cold as Lou is with his statement, I agree with him.

One must be willing to learn even if it means failures and obstacles.
Quite a few of us here and other forums try to make it easy for others to have a foothold on Linux and other operating systems. If a person is unwilling to listen or look, then that is the individual's fault and not the community's.
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
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Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby Troll » 2011-07-22 19:37

sossego wrote:Are Linux and Android considered separate entities in the data you referred to?
Does the same apply to MacOSX and iOS?

Android is not Linux. Its an operating system that was folked from Linux and has taken its own path. Its not even open sourced anymore.
Mac was folked from BSD, but its not BSD.

sossego wrote:There is also the increasing use of mobile systems over Desktop ones. How will this affect the statistics each year?

Thats why you look at Desktop statistics only.[/quote]

sossego wrote:http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?spider=1&qprid=10
Look at the different releases and versions of the same operating systems:

Yes, it is a flawed model, but it doesn't take a mathematician to see that Linux is the only one sitting there.

One thing a person learns about statistics is that any and all data can be manipulated. This is due to the dependency on a sample of a population and not the entire population itself.
sossego wrote:Go upto someone on the street and ask them if they know what Linux is.




renatov wrote:Don't be so apocalyptic huahauhaua... GNU will never die, it's much greater than a simple GUI or OS feature, come on. It's all about sharing, improving and working togheter. Open Source Movement can't be reduced to an ISO, it's a filosophy, a way of thinking and being :D

I'm not being apocalyptic. Linux has been around for 20 years and has never reached over 1% market share.
I don't use software because I worship an ideology, I use it to do just that - use it.

renatov wrote:And this kind of thing other OS like MAC and Windows could never offer. There will always be a lot of people around the world that simply don't fit to these mainstream solutions. And it doesn't matter if the mass public prefer something else, whatever.

Linux NEEDS more people, because when more people use it, bigger companies create quality software for it (Like Oracle with VirtualBox). Right now the integrity of Linux is a joke. I some times wonder why I use it. I enjoyed my computer more in Windows, because I was actually using it. In Linux I'm always having to fix something, or some shit.
I continue to use Linux because it is a better O/S, but I really cannot be bothered with its high maintenance.

renatov wrote:In my opinion, it's similar to what happens with Heavy Metal fans (like me). It's not just about music, it's a way of life.

If your using O/S as a way of life, then you should see a psychologist.

renatov wrote:Do you really think a headbanger will stop listening to Slayer to become a Britney Spear fan? And analogue to this, do you really think true Linux users will give up on Open Source to become Windows or MAC users?

I am not telling people to use Windows or Mac, I am telling Linux users that we need to stop fragmenting Linux into modified distro's, because its destroying it.
The hippie philosophy is taking it to far, and modifying working software for no reason, creating incompatibility and ununiformity amongst distro's. If software is modified and redistributed, it should be renamed.



Lou wrote:If you're too lazy to read, learn a different system

Its not that I am too lazy, I have better things to do than read user documentation every time I want to do something. Who is sad enough to spend their time reading how to use their computer, than actually just using it and enjoying it for what it is.
Again, the purpose of my outlining is to make people aware so the quality of Linux increases, because right now its a joke. Its people like you with low standards that have made the Linux platform a mess.

Lou wrote:Windowtards

Why are Windows users retards?

Lou wrote:That we are elitist and old dinosaurs because we tell them how things are done the correct way.

You "elitists" are pretty delusional. Your way isn't the correct way, its an artificially far fetched way. Somone whom has the time to go out of their way to type something in terminal when it can be 400% faster in GUI would indicate to me that user is 40yo and single. lol
Debian is restricted like every other distro of Linux, in that the user is restricted to repositories, and package maintainers.

The only true freedom using Linux, is building it officially, as can be instructed over at the Linux from scratch website.
Linux from scratch is not a distribution. Its a tutorial for using the official Linux platform.
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Re: The Decline of this Forum

Postby sossego » 2011-07-22 19:56

Troll wrote:Android is not Linux. Its an operating system that was forked from Linux and has taken its own path. Its not even open sourced anymore.Mac was forked from BSD, but its not BSD.
This is not true. Android uses a custom version of the Linux kernel. MacOS was influenced by the BSDs but is not a direct descendant.

Troll wrote:Thats why you look at Desktop statistics only.

Everyone doesn't use a desktop.

sossego wrote:http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?spider=1&qprid=10
Look at the different releases and versions of the same operating systems:

Troll wrote:Yes, it is a flawed model, but it doesn't take a mathematician to see that Linux is the only one sitting there.


sossego wrote:One thing a person learns about statistics is that any and all data can be manipulated. This is due to the dependency on a sample of a population and not the entire population itself.


You need to quote me properly.
Troll wrote:Go up to someone on the street and ask them if they know what Linux is

Go to the average person on the street and ask how anything functions and most will not be able to give you and answer.
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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