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Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Hey
Look at: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tas ... ;a=summary at 9 days ago :
"Joey Hess switch default desktop task to xfce"
And here: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tas ... .git;a=log
"switch default desktop task to xfce
This ensures that the desktop will fit on CD#1, which gnome currently does not.
There may be other reasons to prefer xfce as the default as well, but that
is a complex and subjective topic. Unfortunatly, Debian does not have a
well-defined procedure for making such choices, though it certianly has
well-defined procedures for reviewing them. So, I've decided to be bold,
and continue the tradition of making an arbitrary desktop selection for
Debian in tasksel."
Does Debian will be shipped with Xfce as their default desktop environment?
Source: http://www.muktware.com/4087/debian-whe ... nvironment
Look at: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tas ... ;a=summary at 9 days ago :
"Joey Hess switch default desktop task to xfce"
And here: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tas ... .git;a=log
"switch default desktop task to xfce
This ensures that the desktop will fit on CD#1, which gnome currently does not.
There may be other reasons to prefer xfce as the default as well, but that
is a complex and subjective topic. Unfortunatly, Debian does not have a
well-defined procedure for making such choices, though it certianly has
well-defined procedures for reviewing them. So, I've decided to be bold,
and continue the tradition of making an arbitrary desktop selection for
Debian in tasksel."
Does Debian will be shipped with Xfce as their default desktop environment?
Source: http://www.muktware.com/4087/debian-whe ... nvironment
apt-get install braindump -t unstable
Stupid changes are not synonymous of useful progress.
Stupid changes are not synonymous of useful progress.
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
anonscm.debian.org Git - tasksel/tasksel.git/commit : http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tas ... 0d9a799a08
tasksel: Default desktop: Gnome→Xfce (was: How to proceed with switching packages on first CDs to xz?) : http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/20 ... 00029.html
Looks that way, although I haven't found an actual announcement.
tasksel: Default desktop: Gnome→Xfce (was: How to proceed with switching packages on first CDs to xz?) : http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/20 ... 00029.html
Looks that way, although I haven't found an actual announcement.
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Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
I also think Xfce makes a good default desktop choice.
However, what I like about Debian is that it has no favourites. We get all the choices and all desktops get (theoritically) equal priority.
However, what I like about Debian is that it has no favourites. We get all the choices and all desktops get (theoritically) equal priority.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
I think it's a very good decision to switch to xfce. I'm using Debian for it's performance on my servers. Most of the time I don't even install a GUI.
On my laptop I'm running a Debian+xfce and Arch+cinnamon. I must say that I'm very happy about both those interfaces.
As harishankar said, we are free to choose our own DE.
On my laptop I'm running a Debian+xfce and Arch+cinnamon. I must say that I'm very happy about both those interfaces.
As harishankar said, we are free to choose our own DE.
When using Linux, always remember that you are the one who's in control!
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
He's making the case that gnome does not fit on CD1... and that because of this the default DE should be changed. I'm not sure that's a good enough case to change the default DE.
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
why even bother with a DE on cd1? Why not have the installer ask which de/wm you want installed? Why even bother with a cd? There are very few distros that are distributed on cds, most are on dvds.
Some things a good installer should IMHO ask or do:
1) Choose Language
2) Choose Debian mirror
3) Choose DE/WM
4) Option to Install non-free firmware/drivers
5) Option to Install contrib/non-free packages like Adobe Flash and Oracle Java
6) Option to Install multimedia apps including libdvdcss2, ffmpeg, flac, gstreamer-plugins, lame, vorbis-tools, w32codecs
7) Option to download and install 3rd party apps like Google Chrome and Skype
Setup default apps, like editor, browser, mail client
Some things a good installer should IMHO ask or do:
1) Choose Language
2) Choose Debian mirror
3) Choose DE/WM
4) Option to Install non-free firmware/drivers
5) Option to Install contrib/non-free packages like Adobe Flash and Oracle Java
6) Option to Install multimedia apps including libdvdcss2, ffmpeg, flac, gstreamer-plugins, lame, vorbis-tools, w32codecs
7) Option to download and install 3rd party apps like Google Chrome and Skype
Setup default apps, like editor, browser, mail client
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.69-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB
Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
My Giant Sources.list
Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
My Giant Sources.list
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Because Debian has always provided a cd1 installing a complete Debian operating system including a desktop environment without the need of an internet connection?craigevil wrote:why even bother with a DE on cd1? Why not have the installer ask which de/wm you want installed? Why even bother with a cd? There are very few distros that are distributed on cds, most are on dvds.
apt-get install braindump -t unstable
Stupid changes are not synonymous of useful progress.
Stupid changes are not synonymous of useful progress.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
That depends on the definition of "complete" used by the Debian Developers in turn. The CD1 for Squeeze does not include an office suite or Network Manager, for example.MoaTib wrote:Because Debian has always provided a cd1 installing a complete Debian operating system including a desktop environment without the need of an internet connection
How a casual user could install an essential application like Network Manager without Internet connection is beyond my comprehension.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Agreed. There seem to be countless threads on this forum by users who have just installed Debian and it won't do something basic because they need a non-free hardware package and the installer hasn't even warned about it. Some simple options could eliminate a lot of grief.craigevil wrote:Some things a good installer should IMHO ask or do:
1) Choose Language
2) Choose Debian mirror
3) Choose DE/WM
4) Option to Install non-free firmware/drivers
5) Option to Install contrib/non-free packages like Adobe Flash and Oracle Java
6) Option to Install multimedia apps including libdvdcss2, ffmpeg, flac, gstreamer-plugins, lame, vorbis-tools, w32codecs
7) Option to download and install 3rd party apps like Google Chrome and Skype
Setup default apps, like editor, browser, mail client
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
As long as the installer really asks if you want it or not I can agree. But please don't force me to bloat my system with things that I don't want/need.Bulkley wrote:Agreed. There seem to be countless threads on this forum by users who have just installed Debian and it won't do something basic because they need a non-free hardware package and the installer hasn't even warned about it. Some simple options could eliminate a lot of grief.craigevil wrote:Some things a good installer should IMHO ask or do:
1) Choose Language
2) Choose Debian mirror
3) Choose DE/WM
4) Option to Install non-free firmware/drivers
5) Option to Install contrib/non-free packages like Adobe Flash and Oracle Java
6) Option to Install multimedia apps including libdvdcss2, ffmpeg, flac, gstreamer-plugins, lame, vorbis-tools, w32codecs
7) Option to download and install 3rd party apps like Google Chrome and Skype
Setup default apps, like editor, browser, mail client
I do however prefer a very small image that I can carry with me all the time. I don't think it would be a big issue to switch to the DVD format and drop the CD format, as long as the net installer is still provided . I do however think that Gnome3 isn't the best solution for Debian. I personally, and many of my friends 2, prefer Debian above others because it's lightweight. I use Debian on all my servers.
When using Linux, always remember that you are the one who's in control!
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- oswaldkelso
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Debian is the universal operating system.
It doesn't need to just think of us rich folk in the the first world but others less fortunate than us elsewhere. Many folk are running old computers without DVD drives and that are unable to boot from usb, Their internet connections are poor or intermittent and expensive.
The first CD needs to be as universal as possible too. It matters that it is as accessible as possible to as many as possible while still providing a good experience. The recommended hardware requirements of default Gnome and KDE alone make them less suitable as a Debian default in the context of "Debian is the universal operating system".
XFCE is an excellent choice in this regard and have been discussed here before, it's just funny the other DE's bloat has brought this about.
It doesn't need to just think of us rich folk in the the first world but others less fortunate than us elsewhere. Many folk are running old computers without DVD drives and that are unable to boot from usb, Their internet connections are poor or intermittent and expensive.
The first CD needs to be as universal as possible too. It matters that it is as accessible as possible to as many as possible while still providing a good experience. The recommended hardware requirements of default Gnome and KDE alone make them less suitable as a Debian default in the context of "Debian is the universal operating system".
XFCE is an excellent choice in this regard and have been discussed here before, it's just funny the other DE's bloat has brought this about.
Free Software Matters
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Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
My oldest used PC: 1999 imac 333Mhz 256MB PPC abandoned by Debian
Ash init durbatulûk, ash init gimbatul,
Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
My oldest used PC: 1999 imac 333Mhz 256MB PPC abandoned by Debian
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Which is really strange. I didn't install an optical drive on my last computer. What's the point as long as you can use flash drives?MoaTib wrote: This ensures that the desktop will fit on CD#1, which gnome currently does not.
Although I will never use Xfce, for various reasons, I agree this was a good choice. It's also a message for Gnome.harishankar wrote:I also think Xfce makes a good default desktop choice.
Even if it's not a good enough case (because with flash drives who cares about CD sizes), I feel the decision is a better fit for a 'universal' operating system. If it's universal, it needs to run on anything, including older hardware that would get bogged down by Gnome 3.cynwulf wrote:He's making the case that gnome does not fit on CD1... and that because of this the default DE should be changed. I'm not sure that's a good enough case to change the default DE.
Sounds like a netinstall followed by smxi is what you are looking for.craigevil wrote: Some things a good installer should IMHO ask or do:
1) Choose Language
2) Choose Debian mirror
3) Choose DE/WM
4) Option to Install non-free firmware/drivers
5) Option to Install contrib/non-free packages like Adobe Flash and Oracle Java
6) Option to Install multimedia apps including libdvdcss2, ffmpeg, flac, gstreamer-plugins, lame, vorbis-tools, w32codecs
7) Option to download and install 3rd party apps like Google Chrome and Skype
Setup default apps, like editor, browser, mail client
Agreed, that's why I think the netinstall is one of the best things about Debian. You get exactly what you want and nothing more. That's why in my case, the default DE is of no consequence. But I still give kudos to the Debian developers for this decision, even though I will never use Xfce. It's the most sane decision they could have made, given the situation.tr!x0r wrote: I do however prefer a very small image that I can carry with me all the time.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
They could have protected themselves from a lot of grief if they would have read the very first sentence and main purpose of Debian at debian.orgBulkley wrote:Agreed. There seem to be countless threads on this forum by users who have just installed Debian and it won't do something basic because they need a non-free hardware package and the installer hasn't even warned about it. Some simple options could eliminate a lot of grief.craigevil wrote:Some things a good installer should IMHO ask or do:
1) Choose Language
2) Choose Debian mirror
3) Choose DE/WM
4) Option to Install non-free firmware/drivers
5) Option to Install contrib/non-free packages like Adobe Flash and Oracle Java
6) Option to Install multimedia apps including libdvdcss2, ffmpeg, flac, gstreamer-plugins, lame, vorbis-tools, w32codecs
7) Option to download and install 3rd party apps like Google Chrome and Skype
Setup default apps, like editor, browser, mail client
It is said there, plain and clear, right in front of the eyes (with my resolution it is pretty much all i can read without scrolling, btw).Debian is a free operating system (OS) for your computer.
As far i see: if one doesn't want it, a free operating system, and wants the list from above: i don't think Debian will ever offer that (and i for one am happy for that).
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Yeah, only that XFCE has horrible localization issues* so it makes it suitable only for English speaking folks. Truly universal operating system...oswaldkelso wrote:Debian is the universal operating system.
It doesn't need to just think of us rich folk in the the first world but others less fortunate than us elsewhere. Many folk are running old computers without DVD drives and that are unable to boot from usb, Their internet connections are poor or intermittent and expensive.
The first CD needs to be as universal as possible too. It matters that it is as accessible as possible to as many as possible while still providing a good experience. The recommended hardware requirements of default Gnome and KDE alone make them less suitable as a Debian default in the context of "Debian is the universal operating system".
* at least for Czech, but I doubt that if the keyboard switching applet doesn't work for one language it will for another.
Because let’s face it, the unfortunate aspect of software development is that it involves humans. Mewling, disorganized, miserably analog humans. Sometimes they smell bad.
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/NoRCBugs* at least for Czech, but I doubt that if the keyboard switching applet doesn't work for one language it will for another
Looks like a bug report is in order then
Free Software Matters
Ash init durbatulûk, ash init gimbatul,
Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
My oldest used PC: 1999 imac 333Mhz 256MB PPC abandoned by Debian
Ash init durbatulûk, ash init gimbatul,
Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
My oldest used PC: 1999 imac 333Mhz 256MB PPC abandoned by Debian
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
Windows does not comes with Microsoft Office and I never needed NetworkManager to have a working internet connection. And since Xfce is smaller than GNOME, they can add Wicd on the CD1.emariz wrote:That depends on the definition of "complete" used by the Debian Developers in turn. The CD1 for Squeeze does not include an office suite or Network Manager, for example.MoaTib wrote:Because Debian has always provided a cd1 installing a complete Debian operating system including a desktop environment without the need of an internet connection
How a casual user could install an essential application like Network Manager without Internet connection is beyond my comprehension.
I'm not one of those who will sleep three days in the street to buy the new trendy iCrap, I don't have a cell phone and still use my old good AMD K7 1 GHz (yes the old big slot A CPU ) with Debian/Xfce.debianized wrote:Which is really strange. I didn't install an optical drive on my last computer. What's the point as long as you can use flash drives?MoaTib wrote: This ensures that the desktop will fit on CD#1, which gnome currently does not.
It's not a localization issue, it's a keyboard switching panel applet issue. And of course, you reported the bug and/or provided a patch?Tadeas wrote:Yeah, only that XFCE has horrible localization issues* so it makes it suitable only for English speaking folks. Truly universal operating system...oswaldkelso wrote:Debian is the universal operating system.
It doesn't need to just think of us rich folk in the the first world but others less fortunate than us elsewhere. Many folk are running old computers without DVD drives and that are unable to boot from usb, Their internet connections are poor or intermittent and expensive.
The first CD needs to be as universal as possible too. It matters that it is as accessible as possible to as many as possible while still providing a good experience. The recommended hardware requirements of default Gnome and KDE alone make them less suitable as a Debian default in the context of "Debian is the universal operating system".
* at least for Czech, but I doubt that if the keyboard switching applet doesn't work for one language it will for another.
apt-get install braindump -t unstable
Stupid changes are not synonymous of useful progress.
Stupid changes are not synonymous of useful progress.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
If i am not wrong refracta comes with the keyboad applet, and switching from English to German and vice versa works. I think all others are English speakers (hence they won't be able to confirm nor to deny).
Else i just do setxkbmap de|en.
Else i just do setxkbmap de|en.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
At this moment XFCE 4.8 on Wheezy is not a success on my laptops because the thunar/gvfs-backends bug. Still 30 seconds waiting for browsing my files. Yes, it is possible with a workaround in /usr/share/gvfs/mounts/smb-browse.mount, but it remains a bug even when solving this with this workaround. Strange enough XFCE 4.8 in LMDE works very well and not in Debian.
Until this bug resist it's not a good idea for Debian to swich to XFCE.
Until this bug resist it's not a good idea for Debian to swich to XFCE.
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HP based chromebooks: Debian Testing and other variations
"The simple reality of the matter is that Debian is essentially the backbone of Linux - for all practical purposes."
HP based chromebooks: Debian Testing and other variations
"The simple reality of the matter is that Debian is essentially the backbone of Linux - for all practical purposes."
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Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
I suspect gnome will be as happy about this as well. This way people do not end up with half of the 'gnome experience' instead of the whole thing as the devs intended.
Re: Does Debian changes its default desktop environment?
I had the full gnome-experience more than once.
In the old days that was called bsod.
but i am cheating: it was fedora...
In the old days that was called bsod.
but i am cheating: it was fedora...
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.