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Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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pylkko
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Joined: 2014-11-06 19:02

Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#81 Post by pylkko »

While I see what you are saying about limited native Wayland support, I believe that LibreOffice has been running natively on Wayland for a long time already.

EDIT: I just checked, it starts on native Wayland backend.

luiznetto
Posts: 67
Joined: 2013-11-26 18:40

Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#82 Post by luiznetto »

Segfault wrote:I have been running plain OpenBox for years and I do not feel I miss anything. My applications are easy to start, what else I need? What is the advantage of a bloated DE is a big mystery for me. What can KDE or Gnome do for me I already do not have? :?:
I agree with you. I started using KDE many years ago, it was my favorite. Then when I moved to Ubuntu 8.04, since Gnome was the default, I used Gnome, which was fine. But then, after successive upgrades, when both Gnome and KDE started growing bigger and bigger and more cumbersome and slow and troublesome, I gave up on both of them. Now I use the much lighter and faster LXDE, and I'm pretty satisfied with it.

Gnome and KDE take a long time to download and install, occupy a lot of space in the disk, are bloated and slow down the system. A DE shouldn't get in the way of the applications that really matter. I still like some Gnome and KDE applications, though; I use Gnome Network Manager for the wi-fi and Gnome Terminal, and K3b for writing disks.

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#83 Post by phenest »

luiznetto wrote:A DE shouldn't get in the way of the applications that really matter.
How does Gnome get in the way?
ASRock H77 Pro4-M i7 3770K - 32GB RAM - Pioneer BDR-209D

ruffwoof
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Joined: 2016-08-20 21:00

Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#84 Post by ruffwoof »

How does Gnome get in the way?
I tend to agree and see gnome3 more as in the way of productivity.

Bottom screen edge mouse down/through to show is hard work. Not as easy as a auto-hide panel pop up.

Even the top left reveal corner is sensitive and doesn't always work - such as if certain windows dialogs are already open. Something like brightside (corners) and skippy-xd work as well if not better at presenting a tiled overview of open windows.

grun has preemptive text. pcmanfm's menu://applications or even just /usr/share/applications can show all installed programs via a single click.

So with brightside set to launch skippy-xd upon mouse into top left corner, a bottom screen auto-hide panel, gmrun and pcmanfm you can emulate a similar desktop style to gnome3's default. However for general use/real work many don't set up their desktop that way. Nice for show, not so good for workload. The 'standard' desktop layout has prevailed for good reason - it works well. Popular program icons on the desktop along with work files, a bottom or top panel that shows current open/minimised programs together with date/time, network status, system activity, whatever ...etc. and that can be extremely light - for instance I'm running Debian Jessie with xorg, jwm, rox, pcmanfm type desktop base and its extremely fast to boot/run and more productive in practice than if using gnome's desktop.

Gnome's more like a show car, not the one you'd pick for everyday use, but nice to show once in a while. Except perhaps if you tweak it around, install extensions and spend some time to make it look more like a 'standard' desktop.

n_hologram
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#85 Post by n_hologram »

ruffwoof wrote: Gnome's more like a show car, not the one you'd pick for everyday use, but nice to show once in a while.
This is the best explanation of Gnome I've read so far.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#86 Post by phenest »

ruffwoof wrote:you can emulate a similar desktop style to gnome3's default
And Gnome Shell can emulate a standard desktop layout.
ruffwoof wrote:The 'standard' desktop layout has prevailed for good reason - it works well.
So does a console.
ruffwoof wrote:Popular program icons on the desktop along with work files
Gnome Shell can do that.
ruffwoof wrote:a bottom or top panel that shows current open/minimised programs together with date/time, network status, system activity, whatever ...etc
Gnome Shell can do that.
ruffwoof wrote:and that can be extremely light - for instance I'm running Debian Jessie with xorg, jwm, rox, pcmanfm type desktop base and its extremely fast to boot/run
I only boot/login once a day, and that takes 30 seconds. This comment has more to do with limited resources. If your computer has greater resources, then Gnome can be just as fast to boot and run.
ASRock H77 Pro4-M i7 3770K - 32GB RAM - Pioneer BDR-209D

ruffwoof
Posts: 298
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#87 Post by ruffwoof »

Indeed gnome can be changed, if you pull in extensions from .... wherever. Not nice however having to pull in from third parties and the risks that induces to make it function like other choices that don't entail having to go 'outside the box'.
If your computer has greater resources, then Gnome can be just as fast to boot and run
Granted if you throw more resources at a relatively bloated choice it will boot/run quicker. Mine black screens for 30+ seconds after having booted before the gnome desktop appears. That aside it still takes longer to do stuff simply due to design (out-of-the-box/standard around a mouse distance of a screen width if you measure from screen centre to the top left to activate the Activities and then half a screen height down to get to a favourite. Let alone the hard pressure required to mouse down through the bottom of screen to get the notification area to pop up). After a while of using gnome I end up with wrist ache, I guess the gnome designers/users have stronger wrists :lol:

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#88 Post by phenest »

ruffwoof wrote:Indeed gnome can be changed, if you pull in extensions from .... wherever.
https://extensions.gnome.org/
ruffwoof wrote:Not nice however having to pull in from third parties
Written by 3rd parties, but pulled in from Gnome's extension website.
ruffwoof wrote:to make it function like other choices that don't entail having to go 'outside the box'.
It's part of Gnome's design, so it's not "outside the box"..
ruffwoof wrote:
If your computer has greater resources, then Gnome can be just as fast to boot and run
Granted if you throw more resources at a relatively bloated choice it will boot/run quicker.
I didn't get a faster computer to run Gnome. I use Gnome because it runs fast on the computer I already had. Why streamline my system when it runs Gnome just fine without any signs of bloat.
ruffwoof wrote:Mine black screens for 30+ seconds after having booted before the gnome desktop appears.
I've seen no evidence of that. You may have a bug. But there are bugs n all software.
ruffwoof wrote:That aside it still takes longer to do stuff simply due to design (out-of-the-box/standard around a mouse distance of a screen width if you measure from screen centre to the top left to activate the Activities and then half a screen height down to get to a favourite. Let alone the hard pressure required to mouse down through the bottom of screen to get the notification area to pop up). After a while of using gnome I end up with wrist ache, I guess the gnome designers/users have stronger wrists :lol:
Perhaps someone should introduce you to the keyboard. There are plenty of keyboard shortcuts so you don't have to use the mouse/touchpad as much, or even at all.
ASRock H77 Pro4-M i7 3770K - 32GB RAM - Pioneer BDR-209D

ruffwoof
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#89 Post by ruffwoof »

phenest wrote:Perhaps someone should introduce you to the keyboard. There are plenty of keyboard shortcuts so you don't have to use the mouse/touchpad as much, or even at all.
Good tip, thanks. Drop the gnome desktop, use a terminal window instead ... quicker, easier and a vast improvement. Nice retro feel about it as well.

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#90 Post by phenest »

I was referring to using the keyboard to navigate Gnome instead of using the meuse. :roll:
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debiman
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#91 Post by debiman »

i do find it a bit weird that for every bit of non-standard functionality one has to install an extension, and that these aren't installed the usual way but by clicking a link on a website...
what happened to good old config files? much easier imho.

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#92 Post by phenest »

You make it sound like a big deal. You only install them once, much like any other piece of software.
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n_hologram
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#93 Post by n_hologram »

debiman wrote:i do find it a bit weird that for every bit of non-standard functionality one has to install an extension, and that these aren't installed the usual way but by clicking a link on a website...
what happened to good old config files? much easier imho.
Can you install them via command line (apt-get)?
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#94 Post by phenest »

n_hologram wrote:Can you install them via command line (apt-get)?
Yes.
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n_hologram
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#95 Post by n_hologram »

Yeah, then I don't see how that's any different than standard desktop environments.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#96 Post by phenest »

And no different to custom DE's.
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GarryRicketson
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#97 Post by GarryRicketson »

Oh no! Something has gone wrong
by VaporTrail »---- Jessie installs and runs fine on this laptop if I choose KDE or XFCE during installation. It is only if I try to install Gnome,-----snip--
Post by stevepusser » 2017-05-25 14:33
KDE and xfce don't require the same level of 3D as default in the desktop as GNOME 3
To me, it seems like the solution to the problem is clear, ------

A couple of years ago I started noticing the problems associated with Gnome,
there is nothing wrong with my hardware either. I am still using the same hardware
today, and it ( my hardware) works just fine , as long as Gnome is not involved. So I use a Window Manager, Open Box, it works better then Gnome ever did,.. since my wife likes a DE
better, I have XFCE on her laptop,..
I am not going to go out and buy brand new hardware, just so I can use Gnome, not when every other WM or DE work just fine ,.. (well actually I don't know on KDE, I have not tried
it,...)

MALsPa
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#98 Post by MALsPa »

GarryRicketson wrote:To me, it seems like the solution to the problem is clear, -----
To me, as well. Those who don't like using GNOME shouldn't use it. There, problem solved.

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phenest
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#99 Post by phenest »

Will you do that every time Garry when someone posts a problem with Gnome, You'll post it here and use it as a reason why you won't use Gnome. It's not like the OP of that topic was complaining. :roll:
ASRock H77 Pro4-M i7 3770K - 32GB RAM - Pioneer BDR-209D

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debiman
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

#100 Post by debiman »

MALsPa wrote:To me, as well. Those who don't like using GNOME shouldn't use it. There, problem solved.
yes, but then this wonderful thread couldn't continue for ever and ever... :roll:
it's just one of these topics that never ceases to evoke reactions, discussions and disagreements from all over.
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