Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance system?

If it doesn't relate to Debian, but you still want to share it, please do it here

Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance system?

Postby Fernando Negro » 2018-07-11 04:43

[Note: Richard Stallman, himself, has told me (in replies to messages that I have sent to him) that he is also interested in a solution to this new problem, that has arisen in Europe... So, if anyone knows anything more about this, please, share it.]

(https://blackfernando.blogs.sapo.pt/can ... nce-143810)

Can the new EU-wide "eCall" surveillance system be disabled?

Starting with April 2018, all cars sold within the European Union are now obliged to include an embedded electronic system, with a GPS location device and a microphone, that automatically transmits data to emergency services in case the sensors inside the car detect an accident with the latter, called the "eCall"[1] system.

And, as with other electronic equipments with the same capabilities, of using microphones and GPS locators (think cell/smartphones), naturally a huge privacy concern arises about possible "backdoors" in such a system, that might allow for it to be remotely activated by authorities without a person's knowledge[2].

The "European Standard" of the operating requirements of this technology (document "EN 16072:2015")[3] allows, for the time being[4], for it to be "disabled" at the request of the car owner[5]:


7.8 Modes of operation for automatic triggered eCall

The automatically triggered eCall may be set into one of two modes:
a) automatically enabled on vehicle ignition-on;
b) permanently disabled at the request of the vehicle owner by maintenance personnel and processes approved by the equipment supplier.


But, which specific "processes approved by the equipment supplier" are those?

(If they consist on simply using a hidden “power off” button or removing a SIM card, it's known that that doesn't effectively work to guarantee a person's privacy[2]...)

Is there any approved process, guaranteed to be effective, by which one can really disable such a system?

Has anyone ever done this, and can demonstrate and explain to others how can we do it?


Written by a mere blogger, called Fernando Negro

---
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall
2. https://blackfernando.blogs.sapo.pt/raz ... nos-141654
3. A "preview" (with the first pages) of it, starting at page 5 of the following PDF, is available here - https://www.sis.se/api/document/preview/8013819/ - and the document in question can be downloaded in its entirety, after a payment, here: https://www.en-standard.eu/csn-en-16072 ... rements-1/
4. Status of such European norm described as "Active" here: https://standards.globalspec.com/std/99 ... n-en-16072
5. Following quote taken from a "United Nations Economic Commission for Europe" document: https://wiki.unece.org/download/attachm ... 0eCall.pdf
Signed,

A longtime Ubuntu user, that has migrated to Debian.
User avatar
Fernando Negro
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 2013-11-24 01:29
Location: Portugal

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby Fernando Negro » 2018-07-11 06:42

I doubt that it will help...

But, if someone could get a hand on a manual of one of these new cars that are being sold, maybe that can give us some more information about this.
Signed,

A longtime Ubuntu user, that has migrated to Debian.
User avatar
Fernando Negro
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 2013-11-24 01:29
Location: Portugal

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby debiman » 2018-07-11 13:32

it doesn't seem like one is required to have this by law.
you should really go to a car repair person and ask them how to disable it or even rip it out.
hooking the car up to a computer is part fo the job description nowadays, so they should have some answers.

fwiw, i'd just buy an older car.
User avatar
debiman
 
Posts: 2499
Joined: 2013-03-12 07:18

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby jibberjabber » 2018-07-12 13:46

The logical thing to do would be to ask the various car manufacturers for the manuals, in fact I am sure they can be found online.
Yes, your local mechanic, would be another logical choice, of whom to ask,
---hooking the car up to a computer is part fo the job description nowadays, so they should have some answers.

In fact, I am sure it won't be long before someone does put some instructions on-line, that can be found easily doing a search, there might all ready be some, but since I do not have one of these kind of cars, nor live in Europe, I am not really interested in doing the searches for you.
Maybe the best option
fwiw, i'd just buy an older car.

and if enough people just don't buy these new cars, the manufacturers might
just get the message, but I don't think that is likely, most people are like droids,and really don't even care about this, they see the promotions, about how many lives it may save, etc,.....
Any way, Speaking of Richard Stallman,..
In many ways, these GPS location devices, are wonderful, they can be used to keep track of a parrot, all though there is some risk that the bird will try to remove it,GPS telemetry for parrots: A case study with the Kea - BioOne
Just like some humans will try to figure out how to remove it from their cars.
I am sure if a parrot can figure out how to remove the device, so can a human,
but then again, humans are not the most intelligent species on the planet, most , like the OP, will not be able to figure out how to remove the device :mrgreen:
Parrots are more intelligent then humans
==== edit====
by Fernando Negro » 2018-07-11 06:42
I doubt that it will help...

But, if someone could get a hand on a manual of one of these new cars that are being sold, maybe that can give us some more information about this.

You seem to be the one that is so concerned about this, Why don't you try to contact some of the car manufacturers , or do some searches, your self ?
N5RLX > "Jibber jabber jibber jabber,all day and all night, jibber jabber jibber jabber"

Then there is Papa Parrot
jibberjabber
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2016-01-10 16:58

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby pylkko » 2018-07-12 20:33

debiman wrote:it doesn't seem like one is required to have this by law.
you should really go to a car repair person and ask them how to disable it or even rip it out.
hooking the car up to a computer is part fo the job description nowadays, so they should have some answers.

fwiw, i'd just buy an older car.


This is like saying that no one is required by law to carry a phone, as a solution to the fact that phone modems are black boxes whose workings are not revealed to the user when from leaked documents we know that they are being exploited by certain powers.

Getting an older car will likely be an option for only some years. And even during those intermittent years it will likely be impractical in many ways (possible extra taxes even)
User avatar
pylkko
 
Posts: 1309
Joined: 2014-11-06 19:02

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby golinux » 2018-07-12 20:50

TPTB will eventually herd us all to digital servitude unless we take a stand and create a pocket of sanity . . .
May the FORK be with you!
User avatar
golinux
 
Posts: 1343
Joined: 2010-12-09 00:56
Location: not a 'buntard!

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby Fernando Negro » 2018-07-12 21:33

Fernando Negro wrote:I doubt that it will help...

But, if someone could get a hand on a manual of one of these new cars that are being sold, maybe that can give us some more information about this.

(In case anyone wonders...)

It's not easy to find this type of manuals online.

Nevertheless, I was able to find online the manual of a car model being sold, but I could only find an old(?) version of it (i.e. one of the model without the "eCall" system).

So, for the time being, it looks like the simplest thing to do, is for someone who knows someone who has bought one of these new cars to physically get a hand on one of these manuals.

(Although, I really doubt that such manuals have any information besides telling us which button to push, and how to push it. That is, I wouldn't put much hope in the car manuals helping us with finding a way to disable this "eCall" system.)
Signed,

A longtime Ubuntu user, that has migrated to Debian.
User avatar
Fernando Negro
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 2013-11-24 01:29
Location: Portugal

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-07-12 22:13

Use a bicycle, it is healthier, and also does not pollute the air like cars do,
OH, P.S. and be sure not to take your cell phone, or smart phone with you.
The droids, will be tracked, they must be tracked and controlled, you never know when one might have a "bug", and go hay wire, maybe start shooting everyone in some park or something. Droids should not be allowed to use bicycles, and must all ways have a tracking device with them.
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby Fernando Negro » 2018-07-12 22:23

golinux wrote:TPTB will eventually herd us all to digital servitude unless we take a stand and create a pocket of sanity . . .

Because I lost my hope in my particular Western country years ago (but, not others - and, let's see if Italy will also get out of the "IV Reich") I won't even really comment on that, and I'll just quote what I first said to RMS in a response of mine:

"One thing I'm tired of, is this constant attitude, by almost everyone who likes computers, that what we have to do is to try to find a way to circumvent surveillance".

(...)

"The way to deal with state surveillance and Police States, is to simply get rid of them. Clearly and loudly declare to our governments that we will Not tolerate or accept this - and, get rid of the politicians responsible for this outrageous violations of Privacy.

"('To poke Big Brother in the eye', as you say: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/how-use- ... ment-26804)

"But, living I in a country were any serious activism only leaves you on the verge of a nervous breakdown - and doesn't produce any results, due to the apathy of a highly domesticated people - this is just a suggestion for other people who, like you, live in Western countries that are culturally advanced, and that have serious/decent activist movements..."
Signed,

A longtime Ubuntu user, that has migrated to Debian.
User avatar
Fernando Negro
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 2013-11-24 01:29
Location: Portugal

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby Fernando Negro » 2018-07-12 22:35

Stallman's very good lecture on State Surveillance (where he says that we need "to poke Big Brother in the eye") is not available on YouTube any more, but is still available on Vimeo:

("For A Free Digital Society" - August 2011: WYLUG and nti Leeds hosted a speech by Dr. Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software movement.)

https://vimeo.com/28195912
Signed,

A longtime Ubuntu user, that has migrated to Debian.
User avatar
Fernando Negro
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 2013-11-24 01:29
Location: Portugal

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-07-13 04:21

How long before they can fit these nifty little things to motorbikes? We have a real theft problem in London :mrgreen:

But seriously, perhaps some sort of Faraday Cage is in order?
Charlie don't hack
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7637
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby CwF » 2018-07-13 22:21

only allow your replicant to leave the house, as you, then you're safe...

as a master mechanic having swapped things around some, many 'disables' will become impossible. It's very easy for the 'key on' sequence to include required pings of anything they want. I assume the logic now allows failure of this module so the vehicle operates without it. At some point if some transponder is required and it fails = no start.

Find the mic and disconnect it.

Find the gps antenna...t.

For your motorbike there are tiny gps gadgets with $1/mo cell tracking. I've installed them.
CwF
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 2018-06-20 15:16

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-07-13 22:27

CwF wrote:For your motorbike there are tiny gps gadgets

Yes indeed, Honda UK are currently offering free fitment of such devices for any riders buying a new motorbike from them in London :cool:

[/plug] :mrgreen:
Charlie don't hack
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7637
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby Fernando Negro » 2018-07-13 23:27

CwF wrote:as a master mechanic having swapped things around some, many 'disables' will become impossible. It's very easy for the 'key on' sequence to include required pings of anything they want. I assume the logic now allows failure of this module so the vehicle operates without it. At some point if some transponder is required and it fails = no start.

Right.

For example, I've been able to remove cameras and microphones from Android smartphones. But, when it comes to iPhones and the likes, the person with whom I've removed such Android smartphones components told me that, if one removes the camera from an iPhone, it won't boot.

Thank you for your information, and confirmation.
Signed,

A longtime Ubuntu user, that has migrated to Debian.
User avatar
Fernando Negro
 
Posts: 91
Joined: 2013-11-24 01:29
Location: Portugal

Re: Is it possible to disable the "eCall" surveillance syste

Postby 4D696B65 » 2018-07-14 00:00

This is all new to me. How does this differ from GM's OnStar, Fords Synk, and Chrysler's UConnect?
These have bee in cars since the 90s and the "black boxes" would rat you out with censor data in event of a collision.
They all have microphones too. :(
User avatar
4D696B65
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: 2009-06-28 06:09

Next

Return to Offtopic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

fashionable