Why does Ubuntu hate Nouveau?

[Pelly]

It seems like that nVidia graphic cards, especially older/generic ones, do well only with proprietary drivers on Ubuntu-based systems. Using Nouveau will lead to lock-ups. I experienced it heavily on Linux Mint and I couldn't boot a Kubuntu Live USB due to this (I think it uses Nouveau by default). Some of us just hate installing proprietary drivers, but they risk their systems regressing into a glitch screen at the same moment.
So, I have to ask this question:
Debian + nVidia + Nouveau =
RPM + nVidia + Nouveau =
Ubuntu + nVidia + Nouveau =
Why? Is Nouveau that buggy?

[dasein]

Goodness knows that nouveau has traditionally been horribly buggy, to the point of being unusable (which is why so many folks end up using the binary blob).

Nouveau under Debian has improved dramatically in the last few years, to the point where it represents a perfectly fine replacement for the binary blobs for many (perhaps even most) users.

As for Ubuntu-related problems, you might want to ask in the Ubuntu forums.

[Bulkley]

As for Ubuntu-related problems, you might want to ask in the Ubuntu forums.

+1

[Job]

Nouveau under Debian has improved dramatically in the last few years, to the point where it represents a perfectly fine replacement for the binary blobs for many (perhaps even most) users.

I can testify to that. For a long time I used nouveau until I started looking for surround sound via a receiver. I could not figure it out with nouveau.

[/tmp]

Thanks to the latest kernel shipped with Debian GNU/Linux "Wheezy," both my NVIDIA GTX 550 ti and Quadro FX 580 both work perfectly without proprietary drivers using the nouveau driver. AMD cards still cause no end of mischief on my end, though.

[llivv]

So, I have to ask this question:
Debian + nVidia + Nouveau =
RPM + nVidia + Nouveau =
Ubuntu + nVidia + Nouveau =
Why? Is Nouveau that buggy?

from your report above I would ask
which driver does ubantu recommend? nouveau?

[TobiSGD]

Thanks to the latest kernel shipped with Debian GNU/Linux "Wheezy," both my NVIDIA GTX 550 ti and Quadro FX 580 both work perfectly without proprietary drivers using the nouveau driver./quote]
Only that they run on some arbitrary low frequencies since the nouveau driver simply lacks a reclocking feature. So don't expect to come anywhere near the performance you get with the proprietary drivers.

AMD cards still cause no end of mischief on my end, though.

With kernels >3.11 and Mesa 10.2 you get fully supported dynamic power management, hardware video decoding and OpenGL 3.3, up to the point that I am able to play Metro: Last Light and Civilization V with my HD6870.

[hakerdefo]

Well that's surprising since Noeveau packages used in Ubuntu originate from Debian X Strike Force team!
Cheers!!!

[llivv]

oye

[Linadian]

Sometimes it's a case of a user's hardware, the odd 'model' won't jive with nouveau. I've never had a problem with nouveau in any distro, I have a GeForce 9500 GT (NV96). I actually prefer nouveau, the situation is reverse for me, I've had the "blob" cause major problems to the point of re-install, nVidia only recently started co-operating with Linux developers, AFAIAC, up til now it's nothing but shear corporate presence in your OS, very similar to my windhose days, tons of garbage running in the background accompanied by 10 million icons in the 'system tray', don't miss that either.

[llivv]

Linadian
That is a well thought out post for the most part and we hope to see more like it in the future.
Geeez that sounds way too much like a line from the movie My Cousin Vinny

There is one comment I will make regarding the hardware. That is nvidia has newer models than yours out that still give nouveau issues.
But that is a minor thing when considering the bigger picture and I may have misread how you wanted to present that issue anyway

[Linadian]

Linadian
That is a well thought out post for the most part and we hope to see more like it in the future.
Geeez that sounds way too much like a line from the movie My Cousin Vinny

There is one comment I will make regarding the hardware. That is nvidia has newer models than yours out that still give nouveau issues.
But that is a minor thing when considering the bigger picture and I may have misread how you wanted to present that issue anyway

It's not a perfect world and 'one-size-fits-all' doesn't always work. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are multiple nVidia 'blobs' to cover the whole range of nVidia chips (support for some older chips have been dropped by nVidia altogether), where as there is only one nouveau driver (xserver-xorg-video-nouveau). Maybe it's time to split nouveau up too? Speaking of newer chips, I so want to build a new machine, but my economic reality shoots the legs out from under that idea.

This is just an observation, but I've always had better luck with Linux liking hardware that's been on the market for 6 months or more (and it's cheaper after 6 months ), it's unrealistic to think volunteer code writers wait in line at computer stores to buy bleeding edge hardware for testing/writing purposes. I make a point of buying hardware that has already been tested and works with Linux (search engines are our friends, heh), my Logitech mouse said "kernel 2.6 or higher" right on the box, same with my Creative VF0700 Live! Cam Chat HD webcam, another clue, if a printer for example, says it will work with Apple/Mac on the box, there is a very good chance it will work in Linux, my printer did and does (Brother is Linux friendly but their drivers are a major pain in the keester, not for n00bs or the timid).

[Pelly]

Maybe the structure of Ubuntu somehow conflicts with Nouveau. Either because it's based on sid (does Nouveau suffer from Ubuntu syndrome on sid?) or there are other instabilities in the system.

[llivv]

I can't say what ubutu does or doesn't do other then what I've read about the OS hugging the proprietary ways of the big players in the corporate world.
So in that sense I would think ubutu would support the nvidia blob much better than nouveau.

regarding the versions of the blob, yeah I hear ya. And yes AFAICT there is only one nouveau driver and thank the gods in heaven for it, imo. Other wise imagine all the support questions about which is the correct driver for the card I'm using, questions? Much the same as the misinformation regarding the radeon and ati driver. And also like the ATI graphics cards, with Nvidia one also has the choice of the Debian built nvidia driver as well as the many versions of the blob that only work with specific kernels and cards. Oh Joy! choice, Debian has it, now if the unwashed mass could only figure out how to use it.

[gradinaruvasile]

You cannot compare nouveau (open source nvidia driver) to radeon (open source AMD driver) in recent kernels/mesa versions.

radeon has working dynamic power management support, VDPAU decoding (i hear nouveau has hw decoding too, but dont know how well is working) and is very stable. I have a A8-6500 APU and the built in card works very very well - all my Steam games work with it, i have working hardware decoding etc. Despite me using the latest git code for both kernel and mesa the driver is very stable.
Nouveau on the other hand is mostly reverse engineered and doesnt have reclocking yet (its in works, but since its a reverse engineered stuff, and such is unstable and it probably will in the foreseeable future).

The thing that made the nvidia brand looking good on Linux is their proprietary driver. Period. Without it, AMD steamrolls nvidia on Linux both on stability and features (radeon vs nvidia).